The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:53 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:04 pm
They need to be convinced that their programming is defective. Kirk was good at that sort of thing.
I wonder if Isaac is the person who can convince them of that. He's actually becoming like the character of Odo in DS9 -- a member of the enemy alien race who can never seem to go home.
Lupine wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:24 pm
Makes me wonder if there will be a Kaylon rebellion.
Could Isaac lead such a rebellion from afar?

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:12 pm

scottydog wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:53 pm
I wonder if Isaac is the person who can convince them of that. He's actually becoming like the character of Odo in DS9 -- a member of the enemy alien race who can never seem to go home.
That would be great if he could become the Odo-- or Daneel Olivaw-- of the Kaylons. I hope Orville sticks around long enough to give us such long-term developments.
Could Isaac lead such a rebellion from afar?
It's very odd. The Kaylons were able to turn off Isaac from light years away, but they didn't seem to be in touch with each other at all while on Orville.
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:56 pm

New episode tonight! :bounce:

I suppose scotty will miss the next couple of these, too.
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Lupine » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:55 pm

Good if a little predicable. I figured there was something up with the daughter early on but wasn't expecting what they went with.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:20 pm

I was able to watch part of it, but I've still got a bit to go....
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:47 am

I'll have a lot of catching up to do when I return home on the 17th.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:45 pm

Well, this was another very good episode, and Gordon got his moment in the sun for some serious drama. I suspect that this is another step in the long-term character arc that started with his odd admission of low self-esteem at Alara's homeworld and continued with his request to take the command test.

The story was somewhat reminiscent of the TNG episode that introduced the Cardassians in that the enemy aliens seemed to be falsely accusing one of our people of crimes, but are proven to be correct-- however there are a few substantial differences and twists. Most notably, the officer in Orville was not on active duty, but in fact had been a Krill PO(undeclared)W for twenty years; and the Krill, unlike the Cardassians, seemed to be making sincere overtures for peace. This led to a whole spectrum of moral quandaries, both on the personal and larger scales, that had no easy answers or satisfactory solutions. But while the presentation of the moral ambiguity of peaceful coexistence between conflicting ideologies was realistically disturbing, there was nothing ambiguous about Gordon's characterization-- his moral character, both in terms of personal relationships and patriotism, were shown to be solidly grounded, which was really nice.

The episode was essentially about Gordon being tortured, from the moment he found out his old friend had been in a prison camp all those years to the moment he had to let him die in the shuttle. It was painful to watch their quiet catch-up conversation slowly become Gordon's bitter realization of how deeply his pal was damaged, and to see him bewildered and conflicted over the guy's attempt to enlist him in a treasonous terrorist attack, to watch his face as the others on the bridge discussed his theft of the tube, to see him report their conversation to Talla, and to see him have to fight the guy who saved his life-- essentially a fight to the death. And that was one brutal TOS-style fight. Gordon is no longer the class clown.

They did fool me a bit when Gordon went to the guy's cabin, seemingly straight from his meeting with Talla, and agreed to help him. I knew that Gordon was setting him up, but I thought he was going to unilaterally try to keep him out of trouble, only to be implicated as an accomplice, so I was pleased to see that he had done the smart and mature thing for a change.

There were a lot of other great moments in this episode as well: Yaphit got a well-deserved medal, Talla got to be Supergirl twice, Claire got to save the day with a bit of arcane space knowledge, Ed got to broker a peace treaty, and Ed and Gordon got to reaffirm their friendship. And Gordon getting flung through space in his spacesuit was pretty harrowing. And the Sci-Fi gimmick of the girl with the explosive blood from "a distant part of space" was pretty cool. And just so we don't forget it's The Orville, we got urine tests and rubber gloves. :lol:

There were a couple of plot holes, like some fudging around the sensor scans and medical exams, and Gordon failing to just stun the guy in the shuttle, but overall this was another strong episode.
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Lupine » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:14 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:45 pm
And just so we don't forget it's The Orville, we got urine tests and rubber gloves. :lol:
That scene cracked me up. :lol:

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:17 pm

Yeah, that was a classic. Talla is fully a member of the crew now. :lol:
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Jim Gamma » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:26 am

We get ep 10 this week, looks like we caught up as you don't have anything new until next week. Will watch later. :)

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:24 pm

Yeah, there's some kind of music award show on tonight, so we'll probably be synced up for the last four episodes or so.
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:36 pm

Finally got to watch this episode. I suspected the girl was the key to unraveling the mystery, but I never guessed the weapon of mass destruction was her blood.

Overall, a very enjoyable episode. I don't mind Gordon having serious scenes, but he does need to be the class clown. He's a comedic genius.
RJDiogenes wrote:
Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:45 pm
There were a couple of plot holes, like some fudging around the sensor scans and medical exams, and Gordon failing to just stun the guy in the shuttle, but overall this was another strong episode.
Yes, there are plot holes, but I don't think there are any more in The Orville than in any Star Trek episode.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:06 pm

scottydog wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:36 pm
Finally got to watch this episode. I suspected the girl was the key to unraveling the mystery, but I never guessed the weapon of mass destruction was her blood.
Yeah, the explosive blood was a good idea-- very Sci Fi. And it was quite a shock when she went from traumatized and mute to holding a knife to Talla's throat.
Yes, there are plot holes, but I don't think there are any more in The Orville than in any Star Trek episode.
Yeah, there's always going to be some plot holes. Most of them are no big deal.
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:41 pm

The Orville returns tonight! :saucer:
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:55 pm

Will a red-shirt die tonight? :rip:

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Lupine » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:00 pm

No dead redshirts, but a nice episode nonetheless. It was reminiscent of TNG's "Booby Trap" but went a little deeper, covering addiction with both the simulation and Bortus's nicotine addiction. It was nice to get back to episodes that didn't have world-shattering crisis's for the crew to deal with. I did half-expect that the girl would turn out to be Gordon's ancestor, but I guess they decided not to go there. Fun seeing Tim Russ show up.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Jim Gamma » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:51 pm

We didn't get it this week, maybe next week... I wish Fox would put their schedule up more than a few days in advance.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:10 pm

Jim Gamma wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:51 pm
We didn't get it this week, maybe next week... I wish Fox would put their schedule up more than a few days in advance.
They seem to be taking a few weeks off here, too. Three more episodes remain this season. And still no word about whether there will be a Season 3.
Lupine wrote:
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Fun seeing Tim Russ show up.
I knew he looked familiar, but I couldn't place him. Tuvok! :thumbsup:

It was a pretty good episode. Just as it seems silly for the doctor to fall for Isaac, knowing that he couldn't love her back, it seems silly for Gordon to fall for a computer simulation. Still, I enjoyed the episode and kind of fell in love with Laura myself :love:

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Lupine » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:03 pm

^Yeah she was something.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:13 pm

Tim Russ is in it? Cool! :yes:
Jim Gamma wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:51 pm
We didn't get it this week, maybe next week... I wish Fox would put their schedule up more than a few days in advance.
Aw, still not synced up. :(
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:01 pm

Well, this was a nice episode. One great thing about Orville is that they don't feel compelled to have a token space battle or cosmic disaster in every episode. This was an actual Sci-Fi story about the effects of future technology on a person.

And for the second episode in a row, we get the continuing rehabilitation of Gordon from goofball to adult. I loved how his attraction to Laura began with his fascination at getting a glimpse into the life of a real person from the past. It reminded me of how I became fascinated with history when I was in grade school-- I'd look at ancient ruins and think of how they used to be somebody's house, and I'd wonder what they talked about and what they read and what jokes they told and so forth. With the technology available to make that come to life, a lot of people would be likely to get swept away in it (I can certainly think of at least a couple of historical women that I would really like to meet). In a sense, it was almost a classic Victorian ghost story where a living person becomes enamored of the dead. The odd thing about the story was the overreaction of the other characters-- I don't think, in a world where people have relationships with robots, that Gordon went over any line. He made one ill-fated attempt to change the parameters of the simulation, but he quickly saw the futility. Now if he had tried to continue the story beyond what was in the phone and compete with Greg, that would have been different.

The message of this episode was a bit more subtle than most, but Grayson was kind enough to spell it out for Gordon and the audience at the end. The Butterfly Effect is not an abstract concept. Every interaction with another human being can have almost infinite repercussions, for that person as an individual and, by extension, for society as a whole-- an idea made real by Laura having a direct impact on Gordon four hundred years after she died.

And just so that we don't forget that it's The Orville, we had Bortus and Klyden become chain smokers, a plot I found both repulsive and hilarious. I can barely stand to even look at people smoking, but I know several who do, so the satire of their addiction was appreciated.

And then there was LaMarr: "I know how you feel. Well, no, I don't...." :lol:
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:02 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 9:01 pm
The Butterfly Effect is not an abstract concept. Every interaction with another human being can have almost infinite repercussions, for that person as an individual and, by extension, for society as a whole
That's true. Even my first marriage, which was a painful disaster for me, yielded a few positive effects.

Still, as I mentioned in my earlier comment about this episode, I'm surprised we're still getting sci-fi episodes about "unrequited love" with nonhuman entities. Isaac is incapable of returning the doctor's love. Gordon's situation with Laura is a bit different -- you would think that 4 centuries from now, you could incorporate Laura's personality into a human-like robot for Gordon to have a relationship with in real life.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:18 pm

scottydog wrote:
Sun Mar 24, 2019 10:02 pm
That's true. Even my first marriage, which was a painful disaster for me, yielded a few positive effects.
But it doesn't even have to be positive. Negative actions can ripple out as easily as positive ones, maybe even more easily.
Still, as I mentioned in my earlier comment about this episode, I'm surprised we're still getting sci-fi episodes about "unrequited love" with nonhuman entities. Isaac is incapable of returning the doctor's love. Gordon's situation with Laura is a bit different -- you would think that 4 centuries from now, you could incorporate Laura's personality into a human-like robot for Gordon to have a relationship with in real life.
My impression was that humans don't yet have the technology to create a sentient program yet, like Isaac's people did. So Laura could never be anything more than a more elaborate version of Alexa.
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:57 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:18 pm
My impression was that humans don't yet have the technology to create a sentient program yet, like Isaac's people did. So Laura could never be anything more than a more elaborate version of Alexa.
Hmmm. 400 years is a long time. I expect sentient robots within 50 years. But what do I know?

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:06 pm

No, I think you're right. But the future Space Opera world of Orville is nothing like what will really happen-- like most fictional universes of this type, the technology is both unrealistically advanced and unrealistically primitive, and generally inconsistent.
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