Supernatural: Season 15

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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:20 am

New episode tonight! :ghost:
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:52 pm

I knew it. I knew Cass would be a goner. But that was a pretty amazing scene when he summed up all the growth he's gone through from his first appearance as a naive and bumbling Angel to his pinnacle as a compassionate father figure, and attributed it all to Dean-- which brought him the moment of happiness that he was able to use to take Billie into the Empty with him. A nice payoff for that deal with the Empty that he made to save Jack.

And Billie-- man, she went totally nuts there at the end. She was scary, but it was also hilarious that Dean Winchester was her biggest bugaboo and the one item on Death's bucket list was to take him down. :lol: Now that's two Deaths that Dean has killed. I wonder who the next one will be.

And so Chuck was really the one making people disappear-- first the ones from other realities, then Sam and Dean's friends. But what about those scenes of empty swings and whatnot? Has Chuck emptied the whole world of people, save for Sam and Dean and Jack? It was nice to see Bobby and Charlie and Donna again. For a minute.

The Empty kind of went nuts there, too, when Jack blew her up and it was so LOUD. Which makes me wonder what will happen to Cass and Billie over there. It's not impossible that both will return before things are over. Or at least in a reunion movie.

Come to think of it, before she got scythed, Billie read the new ending to Chuck's book and said, "Interesting." Does that mean that she knew what was about to happen to her and Cass, or did the Winchester Boys screw things up again?
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by Gary » Sat Nov 07, 2020 12:41 pm

What's the story with Jack? Are his powers returning? Or, is he gaining some kind of anti-powers?
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:17 pm

The way I understood it, getting blown up in the Empty wiped out his powers completely. He's just a regular kid now.
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by Gary » Sat Nov 07, 2020 9:50 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:
Sat Nov 07, 2020 8:17 pm
The way I understood it, getting blown up in the Empty wiped out his powers completely. He's just a regular kid now.
He is not. That plant shirked from him when he was in the hidden bunker in Minnesota. It just now dawned on me that he may just be the new Death. I was wondering who would take Billie's place after The Empty took her out.
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by RJDiogenes » Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:21 pm

I noticed that, but I figured it was a curse or something Billie was doing. Jack becoming the new Death is an interesting idea-- and kind of consistent with my age-old idea of the Winchesters taking over Heaven and Hell-- but did that flower scene happen before or after Billie got sucked into the Empty? I can't remember.
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by Gary » Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:45 am

RJDiogenes wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:21 pm
I noticed that, but I figured it was a curse or something Billie was doing. Jack becoming the new Death is an interesting idea-- and kind of consistent with my age-old idea of the Winchesters taking over Heaven and Hell-- but did that flower scene happen before or after Billie got sucked into the Empty? I can't remember.
Scene-wise, it was before Billie was sucked away. Not sure when it would have happened in the actual story timeline. Also, Roweena is in charge of Hell, so I think the fan-charged theory of The Winchesters taking sides of running heaven and hell are poorly thought out, wishful thinking.
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by RJDiogenes » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:30 pm

Gary wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 2:45 am
Scene-wise, it was before Billie was sucked away. Not sure when it would have happened in the actual story timeline. Also, Roweena is in charge of Hell, so I think the fan-charged theory of The Winchesters taking sides of running heaven and hell are poorly thought out, wishful thinking.
I came up with that years before Rowena even existed. And I don't think she'd be much of an obstacle to either Chuck or the writers if they wanted things to end up that way. :lol:
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:46 pm

New episode... last night! But the board was inaccessible. :ghost:
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:49 pm

Well, okay. That was imperfect, but mostly satisfying. The directing was awkward and distracting in the first part of the episode, and I wonder if that was an artifact of putting the thing together in the midst of the pandemic. It was certainly ironic that the storyline involved emptying the world of people-- I'm sure it was unintentional, but it definitely made things convenient for social distancing.

Needless to say, none of my theories, either old or new, even vaguely came to pass; and a lot of what did doesn't really stand up to scrutiny. And it definitely left us with a lot of questions, some of which may or may not be answered with next week's final finale. However, this semi finale was very much a solid conclusion to the fifteen-year journey of the Winchester boys-- what I still think of as the Third Testament.

Chuck has always been an accurate avatar of the Christian god-- benign and benificent one moment, raging and wrathful the next. Saving the people of a town from the depredations of Amara was the epitome of his first aspect, and the true face of the second came here with his obliteration of Michael to the bone-chilling orchestral tune of "Save it!" That's pretty much when I knew that any hopes of Chuck being rehabilitated or just kidding around were not coming to pass.

It was a big surprise to see Michael turn up, and nice that brother Adam's long-ignored face got to show up for the Grand Finale, and an even bigger surprise to see Lucifer briefly appear. There were lots of twists and turns thrown in, including a new Death-- who was nowhere near as cool as the last two, and thankfully didn't last long. Jack becoming a power vacuum came somewhat out of left field, but was fairly foreshadowed and justified Chuck's fear of him.

The entire final confrontation and aftermath, from the arrival at the picturesque remote lake to Sam and Dean's toast back at the bunker, was wonderfully choreographed (in contrast to the first couple of acts). Chuck is defeated and free will prevails in the personification of the Winchesters, and replaced with a truly benevolent and trusting god in the form of Jack-- quite a promotion for a relatively recent addition to the story. But instead of a creation myth where a flawed species is spawned by a cabalistic deity, we have a empathic god created by the kindness of two flawed men. A cosmic metamorphosis worthy of Englehart or Gerber, and a good ending to the road so far.

It doesn't totally stand up to scrutiny-- we've been told repeatedly that Chuck and Amara are infinite beings whose true nature is incomprehensible to mortals, yet they are always played as merely super-powerful human beings. After all, how could god not know that his power was being drained and that his finger snap would be impotent? That's okay, because it's all intended as metaphor. I mean, I wouldn't really have left Chuck unattended like that, especially with the God book on the ground next to him, but there was poetic justice all over the place.

And there were certainly questions left unanswered. What about Heaven and Hell, and the Multiverse, and Cass and Mama Winchester and Eileen? That's okay, too. Maybe we'll find out in the coda or maybe the answers will be saved for the reunion tales when they come. For now, we can be comfortable with the certainty that Jack would commit no unkindness nor allow any wrongs of the Apocalypse to stand.

Oh, and that was a great closing montage, set to the tune of "Running on Empty," one of my favorite songs. I wonder what they're saving for next week....
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by Gary » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:10 pm

HA! I was wrong about Jack being the next Death, but as I stated earlier, something was going on with him as I noted the plant in the hideout wilting when he came close. I loved how they outfoxed Chuck and Jack was able to take all of his power. I figured that spell with the invincible force had powered Jack. Once again, my assumptions were incorrect.

One of my chief complaints about the show has been the fact that it's on broadcast television, hence the rushed storylines. Were this show on Netflix, the extra 10-17 minutes of extra time for the story would lead to better crafted writing and tighter stories.

I thought this was the last episode. Looks like I was wrong. Oh well. As Jensen Ackles stated in an interview, the finale is not going to be puppies and snuggles. There is the potential for Sam and Dean to return in a movie in a few years, so that's at least something.
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Nov 14, 2020 8:40 pm

It was a few minutes after it ended before I remembered that there's one more episode. This would have been a fine finale. But I do hope there's an extended version on the DVD.

The most recent rumor I've heard about the very last episode is that it's old school, with Sam and Dean out there hunting, just like at the beginning. The potential for Supernatural reunion movies is encouraging....
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:49 am

This is it! :(
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:35 pm

Okay, well, that's pretty much what I didn't want. Dean has joined the ranks of Trip Tucker and Wash Washburne as one of those great characters who died in the finale just because. Sam dies, too-- sometime around 2070, I guess, but after a long life that's implied to be Hunting free. I liked them riding off into the sunset much better.

It was certainly nice to see Bobby one last time, but it's a shame that he was the only familiar face. No Cass, no Jack, no Eileen, no Winchester rents. Well, I guess that Vampire was a familiar face, but I don't really remember her. I wonder what happened to the Bunker.

There were a couple of good things. I liked Jack's refurbishing of Heaven and the revelation that Cass is with him, as I hoped. And Dean did have a good death scene-- but it was just so unnecessary.

So here's the finale of Supernatural: Shortly after defeating Chuck and achieving freedom for themselves and humanity, Dean is killed, because apparently being Chuck's favorite character comes with plot armor, Sam eventually marries and has a kid, but is never free of this tragic loss, and the boys are eventually reunited in Heaven. That's not depressing at all.

And where will the reunion movies come in? Huh? Tell me that! :lol:

They should have left it at the sunset.
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by Gary » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:14 pm

Ya know. I can't see how there would be any reunion movies unless it's ham-fisted in between Dean's death and the funeral pyre scene. Again, broadcast network shows are 42-minutes in length, so the ending felt a bit rushed. Overall, I can live with it as it was a bit predictable, albeit proper. It would have been nice to know what happened to Chuck.

It was a good run. I have no idea if I could go back and re-watch the series. Seems like it wouldn't be as enjoyable the second time around. I was having flashbacks of elements from the first few years, such as the Colt pistol and much more fleshed out lore and spells.
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:07 pm

Gary wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:14 pm
Ya know. I can't see how there would be any reunion movies unless it's ham-fisted in between Dean's death and the funeral pyre scene.
Which was a matter of weeks at best. I think Jensen Ackles was pulling our leg.
It would have been nice to know what happened to Chuck.
When he died, did he go to Heaven?
It was a good run. I have no idea if I could go back and re-watch the series. Seems like it wouldn't be as enjoyable the second time around.
There are definitely episodes I'll want to revisit, like the Universal Monsters tribute and the Scooby-Doo crossover and "Baby."
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Re: Supernatural: Season 15

Post by Gary » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:36 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:07 pm
Gary wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:14 pm
Ya know. I can't see how there would be any reunion movies unless it's ham-fisted in between Dean's death and the funeral pyre scene.
Which was a matter of weeks at best. I think Jensen Ackles was pulling our leg.
It would have been nice to know what happened to Chuck.
When he died, did he go to Heaven?
It was a good run. I have no idea if I could go back and re-watch the series. Seems like it wouldn't be as enjoyable the second time around.
There are definitely episodes I'll want to revisit, like the Universal Monsters tribute and the Scooby-Doo crossover and "Baby."
Oh yeah. Scoobynatural was an absolute gem. "Fred's plans never work." :guffaw: :guffaw:
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