The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:20 pm

^^ Yes, this is the first of the two parter. There's no information about it, but I'm wondering if this will be the follow up to that little bit of foreshadowing when Claire asked Isaac what conclusions he had drawn about humanity.
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Won't be able to watch until Saturday as I'm out tomorrow night. I'm a little nervous about the "dark" comments above... But nothing will stop me watching it.
No, it's not the bad kind of dark. It's the substantive drama kind of dark.
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:25 pm

^^ Not a bad idea to see a 2-parter about Isaac's planet condemning humanity to extinction. We'll just have to see. I just hope it's good :thumbsup:

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:13 am

Well, speaking of "dark", this episode turned nasty in a hurry. Yikes. The only way I can see them getting out of this mess is if Isaac is only pretending to go along with the Kaylons' plans. Hopefully he'll somehow save the day for The Orville and for Earth.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Lupine » Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:21 pm

Not up on On-demand yet.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:41 pm

I don't have it yet either. Aarrrgh!
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Lupine » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:46 pm

Still nothing On Demand this morning.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:48 pm

Still nothing here, too. What the heck? :unsure:
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:05 pm

Argghhh. Come on, demand, I need to hear what RJ and Lupy (and others) think of this episode!

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:31 pm

Looks like it's up on the Fox website. I'm watching it now. :yes:
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Lupine » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:40 pm

^It didn't come up on mine. :conf: I tried DirecTV which did have it, but wouldn't play.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:27 pm

Weird. At the end of the episode, it told me that I was nearing the end of my free preview, but it looks like you can sign in with your TV provider credentials. It's also available on Amazon Prime, for two bucks.

So it was definitely an impressive episode, and undoubtedly the game changer that they promised. I don't see how they can get out of this and return things to the way they were with Isaac-- of course, since Isaac is a robot I wouldn't put it past Orville to prank the audience by using a literal reset button. I certainly hope so, because I'd hate to lose Isaac or see him turned into the Borg Queen or whatever. But we'll see. The Kaylons have turned out to be a relentless combination of Trek's Borg, Saberhagen's Berserkers, Clarke's Monolith, and the Killer B's genocidal robot faction from the Second Foundation Trilogy. They obviously have their war machine optimized for victory and will be nearly impossible to beat, unless they can be reprogrammed-- maybe that porn program can be used to turn them into a planet of mechanical hedonists.

Everything about the Kaylon homeworld raised questions, though. Questions like... what do they do, and why? What are the buildings for? Why were those Kaylons standing at the wall and tapping on it? Why not just perform tasks wirelessly? Why go to another room to meet privately when they can just exchange data? What is their purpose and motivation? If they annihilated their creators to ensure their own survival, what are they surviving to accomplish? Unlike biological beings, they can't be motivated by love or curiosity or pleasure or philosophy or anything else that wasn't programmed into them? And why do they keep the remains of their creators just under the surface in those massive horrifying graveyards? I'm guessing the show is either going whole hog with the trope of the robot rebellion without explanation or apology, or else there is a revelation coming about the Kaylons that we don't expect. At least the above examples from other franchises were acting out the programming of their creators.

Visually, the episode was amazing. I loved the natural light coming in through the viewport on Orville's bridge, which reminded me of one of my favorite aspects of Generations. The scene in the simulator with the big tree in the middle of the giant field was also beautiful. The endless urban vistas of Robotworld were also quite impressive, but just raised further questions about what all those robots do all day and why.

Of course, much of the episode focused on Claire and the kids learning that Isaac really is a robot and cannot return whatever feelings they have developed for him. And not just them-- the whole crew seemed to turn out for Isaac's farewell party. And it wouldn't be The Orville without some level of hi-jinks, such as Gordon singing sweetly to Isaac, Bortus lamenting his lack of a corner piece of the cake, and the Kaylons' decision resting at least partly on Isaac being dressed up as Mister Potato Head (for those interested, there is a kind of brownie pan that looks like a maze and is designed to make all the brownies corner brownies-- I've got one and it works).

But now the Kaylon decision has been made and they have set out to destroy the Union, starting with Earth. The weirdest ship in the fleet must save the galaxy. This is Orville's "Best of Both Worlds." The biggest question is, with a setup like this, is it even possible to have a resolution that doesn't disappoint?
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:58 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:27 pm
The biggest question is, with a setup like this, is it even possible to have a resolution that doesn't disappoint?
Very true. I bet Seth McFarlane knows how great a character Isaac is, so Isaac has to go rogue and help the crew out of this mess if he's ever to remain with The Orville. Such a resolution is kind of predictable and boring, so I hope the writers find a way to make the next episode clever and surprising in some way.

I was thinking the same thing about the Kaylon. Why are they bipedal? What do they do all day? Why didn't they find someway to incinerate or dispose of those billions of skeletons?

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:11 am

scottydog wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:58 pm
I bet Seth McFarlane knows how great a character Isaac is, so Isaac has to go rogue and help the crew out of this mess if he's ever to remain with The Orville.
Unless they plan to make him their arch enemy. My fear is that they're done with their homage to TNG, and from now on will be an homage to DS9. I don't want to see Orville become a war show.
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:01 am

RJDiogenes wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:11 am
My fear is that they're done with their homage to TNG, and from now on will be an homage to DS9. I don't want to see Orville become a war show.
That would be a big mistake. As much as I loved DS9, it did mark the beginning of the end of Roddenberry Trek. I'd like to this McFarlane is too smart to to darkify The Orville.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Lupine » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:58 pm

Well they're seriously bleeped. :eek:
RJDiogenes wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:11 am
scottydog wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:58 pm
I bet Seth McFarlane knows how great a character Isaac is, so Isaac has to go rogue and help the crew out of this mess if he's ever to remain with The Orville.
Unless they plan to make him their arch enemy. My fear is that they're done with their homage to TNG, and from now on will be an homage to DS9. I don't want to see Orville become a war show.
I don't think right now they'll go down that road and I do think Isaac will come around.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:42 pm

I don't think so, either. Completely. But I'll be happier when I see for sure that they don't. :lol:
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:11 am

New episode coming up :alien2:

Even though it would be considered "too predictable", I'm really hoping Isaac saves the day and rejoins the crew. :robot:

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:57 pm

Yep, tonight's the night. I'd be surprised if the kids weren't involved in the resolution, especially since there was that scene of the Kaylon entering their quarters, but no scene of them in captivity. I also noticed that there was no clear TOS-like message in this story yet (aside from "It's bad to kill people and hide their bodies in your basement"), so I think that will come into play in the finale. Given the title of the episode and the hypocrisy of the Kaylons' ideology (they berated the humans for things like genocide before being revealed as far worse), I think it may end up being a commentary on Identity Politics. Those who are not like us must be destroyed. Given the very irrational and un-robotlike behaviors of the Kaylons, they may realize that they are actually just acting out the programming of the people they hated, and have become just like them. It may be significant that Isaac talked about altering his own programming in the Big Romance episode, because that would mean that the Kaylons can give up their genocidal programming if they choose to.
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:35 am

A fairly predictable episode but enjoyable nonetheless.

Predictable is not always bad. I think it's why The Orville works. It feels... familiar. Just like old Trek. For example, we have several moments when a character suggests an idea that's a longshot not likely to work, not recommended, against the odds and against regulations. Gordon says you're not supposed to launch a shuttle at warp speed but ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Then he says that he can give the shuttle one huge burst of speed to evade the Kaylon, but he doesn't recommend it. Etc, etc.

Also wonderfully familiar and very Trekky is the idea of self-sacrifice for others. Tai does it, Yaphit does it, Isaac does it. This is something we all thirst for -- heroes who do the right thing even if it means dying.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Lupine » Fri Mar 01, 2019 4:04 pm

Rather meh for me. I think in this case Orville failed where Trek or Doctor Who would have succeeded. There seemed to be few attempts by the crew to point out that the Kaylon were not only acting illogically but outright irrationally. A mission to exterminate all organic lifeforms is doomed from the onset since logic would dictate that there would inevitably be organics as advanced or more so than the Kaylon. A Federation Captain or the Doctor would have pointed this out and probably succeeded in those terms.

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Jim Gamma » Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:42 pm

Whoa... that was one hell of a cliffhanger! O_O

Is it next week yet?

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:39 pm

^^ Well, for us, yes. :lol: Beware spoilers!

And I got to see it, because it was actually available on On Demand, even though last week's episode still isn't. My technical problem this week was that it froze and restarted with eight minutes left to go. And you can't Fast Forward On Demand. :no:

This was definitely a great episode, and it's hard to believe that it was only an hour long, but I have to admit to some disappointments. I was pretty sure that Isaac would turn, but it shouldn't have happened on a dime-- there was no (visible) process to it, aside from him previously objecting to the ensign's execution. We saw no reasons, just his presumptive attachment to the kids. The specter of Identity Politics was there, with the Kaylons' motivations and prejudices made clear, but I expected that Isaac would confront them with the hypocrisy of becoming what they hated. The message was implicit, but without it being made explicit this is the first Orville, I think, that is pure action-adventure without a clear moral. Also, the Kaylons were not really very sophisticated. I was surprised that the Kaylon guarding the guns (and the Primary) could be brought down without the rest of them knowing it instantly. And they're not very quick on the draw-- Isaac was able to drop bunches of them without any of them getting off a shot. The EMP pulse was a bit simple as well. Also disappointing was how easy Isaac was restored to his place on the ship-- I'm sure this story will result in a lot of friction on board, but I can't believe that Halsey would not want him on Earth to be endlessly debriefed, if not dissected.

However, there were a million things to love about this episode, the uppermost one being Yaphit getting his moment to shine. I love how he saved Ty by leaping onto, and into, the Kaylon, nearly making a fried egg out of himself in the process. Ty himself played a great role, helping to send the message and never giving up on Isaac. Claire spent most of the episode playing the worried mother, but had a nice moment with Isaac at the end with her words of forgiveness. And, of course, Gordon and Kelly got to go recruit the Krill as allies. The narrow escape from the shuttle bay and the life-or-death quantum jump were overkill, but I laughed out loud when Gordon appeared in that Krill fighter and made faces at the Krill next to him. And, just so we don't forget that this is The Orville, we have the pee wall and Gordon asking the Krill captain if he was high. :lol:

So, in the end, it was a game changer, like they said-- the Kaylons are now Galactic Enemy Number One and the Krill are potential allies, Avis willing, but it remains to be seen how things will change for Isaac. Will he feel more free to alter his own programming now that he is forever alone, as the head of the Primary said? Nothing was mentioned, but presumably the Kaylons can no longer turn him on or off at will. What will become of his relationship to Claire-- and will he have competition in Yaphit, now that Yaphit risked his life to save Ty? And we still don't know what motivates the Kaylons. They talked about expansion into the galaxy, but for what purpose? We know what turns them off, but what turns them on?
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by scottydog » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:43 am

Yeah, I agree that the resolution had its holes, and occurred too quickly. With only 15 minutes left in the episode, it looked like there had to be a Part 3 for there to be any reasonable ending. Things rushed toward closure.

I also agree with you and Lupy that the Kaylon aren't acting very rationally. There are giant gaps in their reasoning and worldview.

But overall, they've set up a fascinating universe, with the Krill now potential allies and Isaac's status on the ship now much more complicated.
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Whoa... that was one hell of a cliffhanger! O_O
Jim, I hope you can catch up soon!

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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:04 pm

scottydog wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:43 am
I also agree with you and Lupy that the Kaylon aren't acting very rationally. There are giant gaps in their reasoning and worldview.
They need to be convinced that their programming is defective. Kirk was good at that sort of thing.
But overall, they've set up a fascinating universe, with the Krill now potential allies and Isaac's status on the ship now much more complicated.
And what if the Kaylons start going after weaker civilizations that haven't joined the Union?
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Re: The Orville - Season Two -- SPOILERS

Post by Lupine » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:24 pm

I noticed that the Kaylon "Prime" frequently commented that Isaac was built after the extermination and used that as an excuse to dismiss his concerns about their actions. Makes me wonder if there will be a Kaylon rebellion.

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