Science Tidbits #5

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Oct 25, 2019 11:14 pm

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:01 pm

^ :lol:
I have heard of that happening. All the downsides of drunkenness without the benefits. :beer:

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:52 pm

This condition needs to be perfected. :lol:
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:47 pm

The theory of life existing amid Venus's clouds a rose up again. :cloud:
However as I have mentioned before it's possible that if this is life, it could very well have arrived from Earth over the millennia. Though I do now wonder if the Soviet era landers weren't properly sterilized if microbes could have hitched a ride then.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:48 pm

I wonder if Earth microbes could adapt that quickly under current conditions. If life evolved there, I could kind of see it surviving deep underground or in the high clouds.

My Brother said there's a good article on the Fermi Paradox at Space.com, but I haven't checked it out yet.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:22 pm

^It might have been awhile ago as I can't find it there.

Sometime ago I jotted down some reasons why we haven't found any civilizations yet.

1. There may be some difficulty in the development of life. This looks to be increasingly unlikely as it seems likely that Mars once had life. I’d be shocked if Europa doesn’t.

2. It’s possible that multicellular life is rare. Again that’s unlikely as there are benefits to cells cohabitating.

3. Technological civilizations may be rare. This one is possible as there is no reason why such a civilization didn’t arise during the Mesozoic. Earth’s biosphere at the time was robust enough to support truly massive animals. I doubt there are many biomes left that could support a viable population of large sauropods. If a civilization were to arise one would think that the Mesozoic would have been the perfect time.

4. Civilizations may simply destroy themselves, either through war or ecological neglect. And even if the entire population isn’t exterminated, survivors would find their technological progress severely retarded.

5. Most civilizations may not have any interest in the universe beyond their own survival needs. Even ours strays into that territory. With the internet we have almost all of human knowledge available to us day or night, yet we still have QVC hosts debating whether the Moon is a planet or a star. Other civilizations may be as self-absorbed.

6. The risks and costs of space travel may be found to be not worth it.

7. We maybe being protected by another civilization without our knowledge either to A: some kind of “Prime Directive”, or B: the civilization in question is highly territorial and prevents others from reaching us. Said civilization might regard us as no conceivable threat and are ignoring us. For now (cue ominous music).

8. Some kind of catastrophic disaster may have wiped out or hindered other galactic, space-faring species. The disaster could either be A: some kind of galaxy wide natural disaster. B: some kind of massive technological accident. By analogy whole generations of small animals are living their lives near Chernobyl without having seen a human. Or C: some kind of interstellar or galactic war has exterminated most civilizations.

9. Unnervingly there may actually be limits to what a civilization can do technologically. Perhaps technological progress has a certain limit that cannot be passed. Interstellar civilizations may simply not be possible.

10. On the other hand, civilizations may continue to evolve to the point of being virtual gods and have no interest in us.

11. Or if they do have interest we may not notice them. They could be so ubiquitous that we take them for granted. Do ants realize that the picnic they’re raiding is artificial?

12. Taking that thought to its limits, the totality of existence may be artificial and everything we see is the product of alien culture(s).

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:34 pm

Lupine wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:22 pm
2. It’s possible that multicellular life is rare. Again that’s unlikely as there are benefits to cells cohabitating.
I actually think this is one of the main reasons. Life has existed on Earth for about four billion years, but multicellular life has existed for only about half a billion. Flipping that around means that only about 12% of life-bearing worlds have multicellular life. Of course, it's difficult to make projections from one available example.
3. Technological civilizations may be rare. This one is possible as there is no reason why such a civilization didn’t arise during the Mesozoic. Earth’s biosphere at the time was robust enough to support truly massive animals. I doubt there are many biomes left that could support a viable population of large sauropods. If a civilization were to arise one would think that the Mesozoic would have been the perfect time.
I think this is the other big reason. All these millions of years, and only one technological species has appeared on Earth. We've got a few smart species and a few tool users, but nothing comparable to humanity. Flipping those numbers around does not give an optimistic result.
5. Most civilizations may not have any interest in the universe beyond their own survival needs. Even ours strays into that territory. With the internet we have almost all of human knowledge available to us day or night, yet we still have QVC hosts debating whether the Moon is a planet or a star. Other civilizations may be as self-absorbed.
This is a definite possibility. Also, we don't know what those alien intelligences might be motivated by. They may be capable of the science and technology but have no interest in exploring.
6. The risks and costs of space travel may be found to be not worth it.
When it comes to interstellar space travel, this is a definite possibility.
7. We maybe being protected by another civilization without our knowledge either to A: some kind of “Prime Directive”, or B: the civilization in question is highly territorial and prevents others from reaching us. Said civilization might regard us as no conceivable threat and are ignoring us. For now (cue ominous music).
We're blocked on the Galactic Internet. Think of the children!
8. Some kind of catastrophic disaster may have wiped out or hindered other galactic, space-faring species. The disaster could either be A: some kind of galaxy wide natural disaster. B: some kind of massive technological accident. By analogy whole generations of small animals are living their lives near Chernobyl without having seen a human. Or C: some kind of interstellar or galactic war has exterminated most civilizations.
True. One gamma-ray burst can wipe out a lot of worlds. The universe is a violent place.
9. Unnervingly there may actually be limits to what a civilization can do technologically. Perhaps technological progress has a certain limit that cannot be passed. Interstellar civilizations may simply not be possible.
I wonder about this, too. Not necessarily limits to technology, but limits to resources. I read an article one time that speculated that we only have so many useful elements in our crust because of the collision that created the Moon. Other planets may simply not have the metals and other resources available.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by scottydog » Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:50 am

These are all great explanations for the Fermi paradox. Wikipedia has a bunch more, too, that are worth perusing.

My own theory is that once an advanced civilization perfects the holodeck, they all just live out their lives in idealized simulations. There is no incentive to boldly go anywhere.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:52 pm

scottydog wrote:
Sat Nov 02, 2019 1:50 am
These are all great explanations for the Fermi paradox. Wikipedia has a bunch more, too, that are worth perusing.
Yeah, I'll have to look at that.
My own theory is that once an advanced civilization perfects the holodeck, they all just live out their lives in idealized simulations. There is no incentive to boldly go anywhere.
There's actually a poem in my first book that I wrote about that, back in the 90s when computer gaming and online communities started to catch on. It was meant to be thought provoking, but I don't know if it's inevitable or even likely. We already have a situation where tech billionaires are using the money they make from social media and other Internet ventures to finance space development, so I can easily see a world where the vast majority live like The Matrix and finance the adventurous minority who live like Star Trek. Which could be an interesting SF scenario for someone to explore.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:22 pm

^That is a good idea for a story. :yes:

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by scottydog » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:58 pm

^ Yes, and it sounds very plausible, too :yes:

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Sun Nov 03, 2019 12:18 am

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more interesting and likely it seems.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by scottydog » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:08 am


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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:59 pm

^Yeah, that's going to end well. :lol:

Seriously though, I have to wonder even if a brain could be revived would it retain all the memories it had before? Reviving someone would be pointless if they're just a clean slate- ie, basically a new person.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:16 pm

Cell damage starts to set in within minutes of being cut off from oxygen. Even some people who are currently able to be resuscitated with CPR after a heart attack or drowning can suffer brain damage. This treatment will certainly never allow doctors to pull somebody out of a morgue and bring them back to life. But it could certainly have important implications as a medical treatment. I can certainly see it becoming a standard supply for paramedics. It could have surgical applications in situations where the brain has to be maintained separately while the body is shut down for repairs. It could even have implications for artificial hibernation or suspended animation. Any type of artificial blood replacement is really exciting for all kinds of potential uses.

As for their concerns about the impact on organ donation, I suspect that by the time this is ready to be used on humans, printable organ technology will also have progressed to the point where far few human donors are needed.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:18 pm

And a reminder that Mercury is transiting the sun tomorrow morning. B)
I just now found my eclipse glasses after a harrowing search.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:09 pm

Mercury and the sun.

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The dot near the center of the sun. B)

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:18 pm

Aw, man, that is amazing. Someday I will be able to take pictures like that. Possibly.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:02 pm

All you need is a good tripod and eclipse glasses.

Clear skies certainly help too. :rain:

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:27 am

I do have a seldom-used tripod.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Bill » Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:02 pm

Image

well that didn't work

one more try --

Image

my childhood friend took this image before work with his phone camera.. --- turned out he ended up late for work..

but mercury on the sun yep that speck is mercury :)
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:32 pm

^^ I'd consider that a good excuse.

Man, everybody can take great astronomical pictures but me. :(
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:50 pm

That's some phone camera. :eek:

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Bill » Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:47 am

RJDiogenes wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:32 pm
^^ I'd consider that a good excuse.

Man, everybody can take great astronomical pictures but me. :(
let me tell you about my friends job,,..

he is the head engineer on the team that is building the largest telescope in the world, he already did that once in the 90's in Chili up in the Andes --now that it is not the biggest he has to do it again even bigger..

so his images are probably from his home telescope--- we - me and him when I was in 9th grade him in 10th he was showing me how to grind lens and mirrors for this homemade telescope he was working on then ... --- In 8th grade we strung 3 wires between our houses ... and talked via Morse code. this was like 1978 we would always test out the new computers to see what they could do .. at that time he had a programmable calculator,, we always played chess he never beat me... and always wanted to play again --- Of course, I could beat the computer chess board at all the levels.. --- back then 79 or so the programming was not the best. but I had a lot of free time and studied chess with other things.. so yeah nerd I am-- we loved trek and such. He got a good job. --- I seemed just to organize my brainwaves via a biofeedback set up I made to have it all sync and as such synced brain waves is the basic definition of schizophrenia they told me.. the doctors, -- so I had to do hospital stays and so on but yeah 000
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:35 pm

Bill wrote:
Mon Nov 18, 2019 2:47 am
so his images are probably from his home telescope
Ah, I've tried taking shots like that... with considerably poorer results.

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