Science Tidbits #5

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by scottydog » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:45 am

Well this article about the Kessler Syndrome is certainly a bit frightening.

https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/how-th ... 1535983109
.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:23 pm

But there are plans in the works to deal with this problem. The notion that the Kessler Syndrome could "end all space exploration" is a tad hyperbolic however. Orbital debris is a technical problem and can be solved.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:37 pm

This is definitely an issue. In one of his books, Arthur C Clarke (or one of his characters) made a tongue-in-cheek prediction that Earth would one day have a Saturn-like ring of nuts and bolts. And I used Kessler Syndrome to keep Earth isolated for seven hundred years in Spacious Skies (although there was more to it than that).

I don't think the idea of space debris reaching critical mass like an atomic pile is much to worry about, but the threat of debris to satellites and vehicles and space stations is a growing problem. Increased space traffic will also mean an increased chance of mishaps, which exacerbates the situation. There is also the issue of the militarization of space-- we know that the Russians are experimenting with attack satellites and no doubt we are as well. Of course, using such weapons would amount to a scorched Earth (or scorched orbit) policy, because the results would be just as damaging to one side as the other.

Ultimately what it is is a business opportunity. Various companies have been proposing solutions for years and eventually it will get to the point where spacegoing concerns will have to get together and pay for it. My favorite idea was essentially a great sphere of space gum that floats around while space debris sticks to it. :lol:
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by scottydog » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:56 am

^^ Fly paper, eh? Not a bad solution. Perhaps magnetized, too.

I'm glad you both think the problem is potentially solvable.

I envy Kessler. He got to have a syndrome named after him. What would be the Hutchins Syndrome or the Schultz Syndrome?

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:22 pm

I imagine that Schultz Syndrome would be pretty nasty. They might have a cream for it though.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:31 pm

Hutchins Syndrome would probably be the observation that any liberal idea will inevitably become a conservative ideology when the next generation gets ahold of it.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by scottydog » Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:50 pm

Lupine wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:22 pm
I imagine that Schultz Syndrome would be pretty nasty. They might have a cream for it though.
:lol: :lol: :veryhappy:
RJDiogenes wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:31 pm
Hutchins Syndrome would probably be the observation that any liberal idea will inevitably become a conservative ideology when the next generation gets ahold of it.
What are some prominent examples of this?

You know what the Allison Syndrome would be. Or is. The almost debilitating addiction to anything chocolate, and deep distrust of anything non-chocolate.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:25 pm

Actually, it sounds like Allison Syndrome is an example: It started off as a love of chocolate and evolved into a distrust of non-chocolate. :lol:

Let's see, probably the most prominent historical example for us would be Christianity. It started out as the progressive teachings of a guy (or maybe several guys) who just wanted everyone to come together and love each other, and it eventually turned into Crusades and wars and internecine conflicts that has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of millions of people, and is still causing trouble today.

The most topical example of our times is the Left Wing, which, fifty years ago was able to change the world by promoting a liberal philosophy, but which is now alienating people with political correctness and identity politics, resulting in bad outcomes like President The Donald.

It seems like every good idea must become an oppressive regulation and every Golden Age must devolve into a Dark Age-- the question is why, and is there any way to prevent the cycle from repeating endlessly (this was actually the theme I was getting at in Spacious Skies-- I'm not sure if you ever read that).
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by scottydog » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:24 am

^^ Good examples.

It almost sounds like any good thing taken to an extreme will produce a negative result. For example, I'm a nice guy, but sometimes I'm too nice for my own good and people take advantage of me.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:19 pm

It's not even so much that it's too much of a good thing, but that the good thing becomes its own evil twin.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by scottydog » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:17 am

RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:19 pm
It's not even so much that it's too much of a good thing, but that the good thing becomes its own evil twin.
An example is Capitalism. One could argue that capitalism has raised the standard of living for everyone, including the poor. But unchecked, capitalism creates terrible inequity and exploitation.

And chocolate chip cookies. As Tony the Tiger once said, they're GREEEAAT. But too many even makes me sick to my stomach.

Your example of religion is good because it's not too much religion that is the problem -- it's taking a way of life that requires the diminishment of ego and ruining it by injecting ego into it (e.g., my religion is better than your religion, and my beliefs are superior to your beliefs).

Technology is another example of your principle. Nothing has improved the quality of life more than technology, yet technology like the iPhone is creating a generation of emotionally fragile zombies who are slave to their devices.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Wed Sep 19, 2018 12:33 am

And here is something of interest to all ReNexters. :D :james:
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:58 pm

^ :lol:
I should check with Jerry to see what he ever did with the mummified cat I gave him.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:22 pm

And in further interesting news, they may have discovered Vulcan. :bounce:
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:23 pm

You posted before I could.

It's almost eerie when fictional planets turn out to be real, though obviously our Vulcan (and that should be its official name) will bear no resemblance to Star Trek's Vulcan.

We think... :unsure:

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:55 pm

I was trying to think of how we could reconcile the Vulcan of Trek and this exoplanet, which is about eight times as massive as Earth. In the series, Spock tells Uhura that Vulcan has no moon, but in TMP we see a very large moon-like object in the sky-- so what if Vulcan is the moon. Say there's a mini-Neptune about seven times as massive as Earth, and then its moon Vulcan which is Earth-sized. In terms of the latest observations, I'm sure they couldn't tell a close binary from a single planet.

And Phil Plait thinks he's a nerd. :lol:
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:20 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:55 pm
I was trying to think of how we could reconcile the Vulcan of Trek and this exoplanet, which is about eight times as massive as Earth. In the series, Spock tells Uhura that Vulcan has no moon, but in TMP we see a very large moon-like object in the sky-- so what if Vulcan is the moon. Say there's a mini-Neptune about seven times as massive as Earth, and then its moon Vulcan which is Earth-sized. In terms of the latest observations, I'm sure they couldn't tell a close binary from a single planet.

And Phil Plait thinks he's a nerd. :lol:
:lol: Actually that's a great idea. Diane Duane in her novels tried to reconcile that by saying that Vulcan was a double-planet (the other I think was named "T'khut". But Vulcan itself being a moon would be a better solution.

Back in the real world, large super-Earth's could have habitable moons- I should use that idea in my books.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:15 pm

Lupine wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:20 pm
:lol: Actually that's a great idea. Diane Carey in her novels tried to reconcile that by saying that Vulcan was a double-planet (the other I think was named "T'khut". But Vulcan itself being a moon would be a better solution.
It figures that someone would have thought of it....
Back in the real world, large super-Earth's could have habitable moons- I should use that idea in my books.
Definitely. And a large moon around a super-Jupiter could get energy from its star and its primary, which could help balance the extreme differences in distance from the star as it orbits. Have you ever read Medea?

Another idea I had that I've never seen used (so it's probably stupid) is a habitable planet in a Lagrange Zone of a super-Jupiter. The bigger the planet the bigger, and presumably more stable, the Lagrange Zones.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:30 pm

^It's an interesting idea. Not too stupid for a story. After all I once (tried) to read a book where the nearest galaxy was four light-years away. :wtf:
RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:15 pm
Back in the real world, large super-Earth's could have habitable moons- I should use that idea in my books.
Definitely. And a large moon around a super-Jupiter could get energy from its star and its primary, which could help balance the extreme differences in distance from the star as it orbits. Have you ever read Medea?
Not yet.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:19 pm

Lupine wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:30 pm
^It's an interesting idea. Not too stupid for a story. After all I once (tried) to read a book where the nearest galaxy was four light-years away. :wtf:
It would definitely be a unique setting for a story, I think. The thing that I wonder about is the stability of the environment. If an axial tilt can cause seasons, bobbing around the center of a Lagrange Zone could cause some pretty severe planetary mood swings. But I think the body itself would safe enough. If Jupiter can hang onto a bunch of asteroids, a super-Jupiter could hang onto a proportionally larger object.
Not yet.
It's a fantastic book, though somewhat forgotten these days for some reason. For me, it kind of embodies the whole concept of Science Fiction, because the first half is a bunch of panel discussions between the writers where they create the planet and environment and the second half is the stories that they wrote about it.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:02 pm

Brexit is having one unexpected side-effect.
The British really screwed themselves.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:22 pm

Future Historians, should they exist, will refer to this as the Age Of Self-Screwing.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:56 pm

And we might have some possible points of origin for Oumuamua.

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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by RJDiogenes » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:50 pm

That's interesting. I thought they'd decided it was created in a nova or supernova, which accounted for its odd shape.
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Re: Science Tidbits #5

Post by Lupine » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:58 pm

^That was the best guess, but now I suppose they're have to reconsider. Rama :D

Meanwhile, nobody apparently knows what Dark Matter is. So I guess we're back to tartigrade poop. :lol:
Personally I wonder if it's gravity leaking in from other Branes.

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