Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by scottydog » Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:01 am

I'll watch this episode either tonight, if I can stay up a bit longer, or tomorrow for sure. Please don't tell me to hurry up :lol:

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by scottydog » Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:50 pm

Again, I really liked the episode, and I'm getting the feeling that despite any flaws or issues in an episode, if it features Patrick Stewart as Jean Luc Picard, and he has intelligent and thoughtful things to say, then the episode works for me. Stewart is that powerful and magnetic as an actor. And I do give the writers credit for handling his character and his developmental place in life extremely well.

I totally agree that the reunion with Will and Deanna was handled beautifully. They're in retirement now, so I can easily buy into the idea that they'd find some idyllic planet on which to settle down and raise a family. That damn pizza he was making made me hungry the entire episode, the interspersed puking scenes notwithstanding.

For me, the big issue was Hugh's death, which is highly unfortunate and puzzling. His character had a nice history and a promising future, so I don't know what the point was other than to show us that life is short and The Modern TV Series dare not avoid killing off a main character now and then.

Soji looks like she's coming around to trusting Picard et al. We'll see. I'm very curious what becomes of her -- and if her sister is somehow still alive.

I'm glad they gave us Ages's backstory so that we can see the genesis of her killing of Bruce Maddox. She's not entirely evil, just brainwashed. I get the sense that a Romulan mind-meld is not entirely the same as a Vulcan one and can be used for planting memories for nefarious purposes. Not sure how Agnes assumed that her death would turn off the transponders. Do you suppose she'll live and be a long-term character? I kind of hope so because deep down I think she's smart and likeable if given a chance.

I'm also falling in love the the show's theme music. It's both beautiful and haunting.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:25 am

scottydog wrote:
Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:50 pm
Again, I really liked the episode, and I'm getting the feeling that despite any flaws or issues in an episode, if it features Patrick Stewart as Jean Luc Picard, and he has intelligent and thoughtful things to say, then the episode works for me.
It may come down to that for me for the series. As long as they don't directly tie it to JJ Trek or Discovery.
They're in retirement now, so I can easily buy into the idea that they'd find some idyllic planet on which to settle down and raise a family.
Maybe it actually was a place to settle down. The way he talked about it made me think it was a place like Lourdes or Medjugorje, only real.
For me, the big issue was Hugh's death, which is highly unfortunate and puzzling.
Hopefully his nanoprobes will heal him, but I doubt it.
I get the sense that a Romulan mind-meld is not entirely the same as a Vulcan one and can be used for planting memories for nefarious purposes.
I don't think Romulans can mind meld. I think she's a Vulcan. And there is a precedent for Vulcans using mind melds for the purpose of mind control in Sybok (and actually Spock exercised a little mind control as well, in "The Omega Glory").
Not sure how Agnes assumed that her death would turn off the transponders.
I think I got that wrong. Somebody at TrekBBS said that the injection was intended to destroy the implant, and her likely death was just a side effect-- so she was more of a martyr than a suicide-- and I think that's right.
Do you suppose she'll live and be a long-term character? I kind of hope so because deep down I think she's smart and likeable if given a chance.
Well, my wishes for her death are less fervent after this episode.
I'm also falling in love the the show's theme music. It's both beautiful and haunting.
I hate that title sequence. I avoid paying attention to it. :lol:
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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by scottydog » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:45 am

RJDiogenes wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:25 am
I don't think Romulans can mind meld. I think she's a Vulcan. And there is a precedent for Vulcans using mind melds for the purpose of mind control in Sybok (and actually Spock exercised a little mind control as well, in "The Omega Glory").
Interesting. In terms of appearance, how does one distinguish a Vulcan from a Romulan?
RJDiogenes wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:25 am
Not sure how Agnes assumed that her death would turn off the transponders.
I think I got that wrong. Somebody at TrekBBS said that the injection was intended to destroy the implant, and her likely death was just a side effect-- so she was more of a martyr than a suicide-- and I think that's right.
Ahh, that makes sense :yes:
RJDiogenes wrote:
Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:25 am
I hate that title sequence. I avoid paying attention to it. :lol:
The images and visuals in the title sequence are weird and dumb. But the music is totally captivating.

I need to get onto Trekbbs to see what others are saying. Is the overall opinion of the series positive there?

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by scottydog » Sat Mar 07, 2020 7:30 pm

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Mar 07, 2020 10:43 pm

Now that's more like it, CBS. :lol:
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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:30 am

Okay, we got some interesting revelations in this episode. I'm not entirely sure I'm following everything, but it seems like once upon a time there was a civilization that was destroyed by some sort of hyperintelligence who polices the galaxy looking for societies who develop AI and obliterates them for unknown reasons. Some Romulans came upon the ruins of this civilization and had fear and paranoia and violent CGI implanted in their noggins by an alien mind implanter. They then became the Jack Flash, a cult dedicated to the eradication of AI, not necessarily because they dislike AI, although the Rommie Twins sure seem to, but because they want the policing hyperintelligence to not come and obliterate them. Am I close? Anyway, it's an interesting SF idea on a grand scale, and it kind of reminds me of the Monolith builders in Clarke's Odyssey series-- who, by the way, were able to make stars go supernova when they wanted to obliterate someone.

Aside from that, this episode had lots of great character stuff going on. Rios finally got his turn in the spotlight and we found out the whole story behind that tragedy he alluded to a while back. And a dark story it was, involving an encounter with yet another version of Soji and an execution ordered by Commodore Oh, leading to his ultimate suicide-- for which Rios carries some guilt, because he gave him a hard time. This ties in to the AI plotline, but raises more questions. How did Oh recognize the other Soji? Who was with the other Soji? Was he an AI, too? Why did he have a Hippie name? Did Maddox build him as well as the Soji series? Or did Maddox find a planet of AIs who took him in and custom built androids for him? Does this android planet have any connection to other android-related planets that we've seen, like Mudd's planet or Roger Korby's planet?

We also got some great scenes featuring Rios' holographic avatars. Since the beginning, this multiple-hologram idea has been one of my favorite elements of the show, one of the things that really felt the most Trekkish, so I loved them getting the spotlight. Especially when they were all in the same room and Raffi was trying to ply them for information.

And it looks like Soji has been activated by events in this episode and really wants to go home, and became the latest in a long line of androids to commandeer a starship and take it to-- well, nowhere, because Rios outsmarted her with his lullaby lockout. We've now gotten glimpses into what made both Raffi and Rios formidable Starfleet officers before they became broken, and why they deserve to be on Picard's crew.

Oh, yeah, Picard is a part of this show, too, and he was in top form here. Stern and dismayed with an outed Agnes, fatherly and persuasive with Soji (who told him that Data loved him), collegial with his fellow officer Rios, assertive yet open minded with Raffi-- and he convinced Clancy to send the fleet, even if she did tell him to shut the fuck up again. :lol: And we got a couple of those classic Picard speeches about optimism and fighting back against fear that we love him for. In particular, his acknowledgement that the Federation did fail its own values by falling into Oh's trap of fear-mongering is the message for the current generation that this show needs to send to validate this Dark Federation storyline.

And meanwhile, back on the cube, Seven came to the rescue and got a big hug from Elfwich. He's such a lovable little berserker. But my favorite moment, of course, was Seven becoming the Borg Queen for a minute. I once had an idea for a mixed-cast grand finale for 24th century Trek that involved Seven assimilating the Queen and taking over as a benign leader, ultimately disbanding the Collective. This wasn't quite that yet, but it kind of plants the seed of that possibility.

All in all, this episode was packed with great character moments and interesting plot developments and Trekkish themes-- I'd say it's easily the best episode of the series yet.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by scottydog » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:57 am

Another really good episode. Lots of great backstory about why the Romulans are so intent on destroying all synths. That unique 8-star system is fascinating. I hope we learn more about its origins.
RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:30 am
We also got some great scenes featuring Rios' holographic avatars. Since the beginning, this multiple-hologram idea has been one of my favorite elements of the show, one of the things that really felt the most Trekkish, so I loved them getting the spotlight. Especially when they were all in the same room and Raffi was trying to ply them for information.
Yes indeed, these EHs are fabulous, entertaining, and an innovative part of Trek lore now. I love all their various accents, not to mention subtle differences among them in hairstyle and amount of grey in the beard.
RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:30 am
We've now gotten glimpses into what made both Raffi and Rios formidable Starfleet officers before they became broken, and why they deserve to be on Picard's crew.
Exactly right. I was very impressed by Raffi's ability to put so many pieces of the puzzle together. Not drinking alcohol helps her think more clearly.
RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:30 am
Oh, yeah, Picard is a part of this show, too, and he was in top form here. Stern and dismayed with an outed Agnes, fatherly and persuasive with Soji (who told him that Data loved him), collegial with his fellow officer Rios, assertive yet open minded with Raffi-- and he convinced Clancy to send the fleet, even if she did tell him to shut the fuck up again. :lol: And we got a couple of those classic Picard speeches about optimism and fighting back against fear that we love him for.
This optimism, wisdom, and hope for the future all make this series feel like Trek and most in alignment with Roddenberry's vision. :thumbsup:
RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:30 am
All in all, this episode was packed with great character moments and interesting plot developments and Trekkish themes-- I'd say it's easily the best episode of the series yet.
I agree. I"ve enjoyed every single episode and this one stood out especially. Isn't it remarkable how they've gotten this series right in so many ways that they got Discovery wrong?

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by Lupine » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:54 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:30 am
Okay, we got some interesting revelations in this episode. I'm not entirely sure I'm following everything, but it seems like once upon a time there was a civilization that was destroyed by some sort of hyperintelligence who polices the galaxy looking for societies who develop AI and obliterates them for unknown reasons. Some Romulans came upon the ruins of this civilization and had fear and paranoia and violent CGI implanted in their noggins by an alien mind implanter.
Does it tie into Control from Discovery? I've been reading some speculation the shows would cross-over.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:26 pm

scottydog wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:57 am
That unique 8-star system is fascinating. I hope we learn more about its origins.
Yes, I love that idea because it reminds me of a story I wrote. :lol:
Yes indeed, these EHs are fabulous, entertaining, and an innovative part of Trek lore now. I love all their various accents, not to mention subtle differences among them in hairstyle and amount of grey in the beard.
The actor is really very good.
This optimism, wisdom, and hope for the future all make this series feel like Trek and most in alignment with Roddenberry's vision. :thumbsup:
Let's hope they can keep it up.
Lupine wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:54 pm
Does it tie into Control from Discovery? I've been reading some speculation the shows would cross-over.
According to most people who watch both shows, it does not. I hope that's true.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by scottydog » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:38 am

Lupine wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:54 pm
I've been reading some speculation the shows would cross-over.
They don't take place in the same time period; in fact, it's not even close. Plus the two shows are so vastly different in style and production, it would be like HeeHaw combining with Hill Street Blue. :lol:
RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:26 pm
Yes, I love that idea because it reminds me of a story I wrote. :lol:
Damn, you should have been a television writer!

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by Lupine » Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:08 pm

scottydog wrote:
Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:38 am
They don't take place in the same time period; in fact, it's not even close. Plus the two shows are so vastly different in style and production, it would be like HeeHaw combining with Hill Street Blue. :lol:
That sounds like a great idea! :writing:

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by RJDiogenes » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:26 pm

Hee-Haw Street Blues. :tv:
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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by Lupine » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:38 pm

Hollywood writers should seriously consider lurking in our forums. :lol:

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by RJDiogenes » Sun Mar 15, 2020 9:00 pm

They should hire us! :twocents:
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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by Orpheus » Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:33 pm

I haven't had time to post, and I've been worried the next episode my air before I can say this: PLANTS.


If I'm right, you'll know what I meant soon enough.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by RJDiogenes » Mon Mar 16, 2020 12:42 am

Well, Agnes was a plant. :D

If you man that the anti-Synth Hyperintelligence is a race of plants, then we should just introduce them to Stanley Weinbaum. :book:
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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by scottydog » Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:44 pm

Hey, does anyone know how many season 1 episodes there are? We're already on ep 9 :eek:

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by RJDiogenes » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:38 am

Two more to go. This week and next week is the two-part finale.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by RJDiogenes » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:25 am

And here we have the first part of the season finale. Not everything I would hope for, but actually quite good. We spent most of the episode on a sunny planet that's populated by androids wearing, not quite togas, but colorful diaphanous summerwear-- very Star Trek indeed, and a nice change of pace from the dreary generic 21st-century Sci-Fi sets.

It's a nice touch that the androids don't have a super-civilization that is all powerful. They have very finite resources and they used up a lot of them bringing La Sirena and the Artifact and the Romulan Hipster to the surface-- and I'm still not quite sure if they were intending to bring them down for a meeting, or just kill them. In any case, most of them survived. Possibly the only fatalities were Rios' holograms.

On to the plot: Upon arriving at this new planet, we are introduced to a new Soong-- the son of Soong-- but it's the same old Soong and dance. Haha. Nice enough guy, but he's fruity as a nutcake. He created this private world of androids, some of whom resemble Data and some who don't-- and provided a haven for Bruce Maddox after the Synth Ban. How Maddox knew about the place and got there is still a bit fuzzy. Soji represents one model, and there's been at least four of her-- including at least one who has that Data look about her, which is really cool except for the fact that she's evil. She even conspired with Hipster to kill one of her sisters to promote anti-biological bigotry.

Because that is actually the main plot of this series. I was actually right when I said that the Jack Flash brain zap was intended for androids and damages biological brains. Because the envisioned Apocalypse is all about an intergalactic civilization of artificial life forms who swoop in and save oppressed androids from nasty biologicals-- so more like the Killer B's awful Second Foundation Trilogy than Clarke's Odyssey series. And Data-Soji got their telephone number out of Agnes's damaged brain and they will soon be summoned to wipe out the Alpha Quadrant.

There's other stuff going on, too, including a lot of nice little character moments. The best was an encounter between Raffi and Picard where we see that they really did mean as much to each other as Riker and Picard did, even if things ended badly in this case. And Rios has genuine fondness for Agnes, as we saw in another touching scene. And Elfwich was reunited with Picard again-- kid's a hugger-- and was pleased to learn how proud Picard is of him. And, in a moment that was perhaps intended as foreshadowing, Picard left him with Seven, declaring that saving the galaxy was their job now. I wonder if Seven can get that cube off the ground.

But most interesting of all, Picard revealed that his Irumodic Syndrome has kicked in after all these years and he is terminal. Coincidentally-- very, very coincidentally-- Son of Soong is developing a way to transfer a human consciousness into an android body. Will Picard live on as a Humandroid, a living bridge between two worlds? Stay tuned.

Oh, I almost forgot, there are 218 Romulan Angrybirds on the way to destroy the planet. Where the fuck is Clancy's fucking fleet? I have no fucking idea.
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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by scottydog » Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:52 am

RJDiogenes wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:38 am
Two more to go. This week and next week is the two-part finale.
Okay cool. I'll watch tomorrow for sure. :yes:

Do you know if they've already started filming episodes of season 2?

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by scottydog » Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:26 am

Wow, another very impressive episode. I really love where this is going. Soong's androids were depicted brilliantly in all their varied combinations.
RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:25 am
...we are introduced to a new Soong-- the son of Soong-- but it's the same old Soong and dance.
:Ahhh: :lol: Well done :clap:
RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:25 am
But most interesting of all, Picard revealed that his Irumodic Syndrome has kicked in after all these years and he is terminal. Coincidentally-- very, very coincidentally-- Son of Soong is developing a way to transfer a human consciousness into an android body. Will Picard live on as a Humandroid, a living bridge between two worlds? Stay tuned.
Yeah, they kind of telegraphed this. I spent the entire 2nd half of the episode pondering whether it's a good thing or a bad thing for Picard's "essence" to be transferred into an android body. On the one hand, it would be the network's brilliant way of ensuring the continuation of the series for decades potentially, using another younger actor who happens to talk and act like Picard.

Yet I'm troubled by the implications of this. Are we destined to create technologies that will immortalize us all? Do we want that? Old people and old ideas need to die off. Otherwise, life doesn't progress.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by Lupine » Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:47 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:25 am
On to the plot: Upon arriving at this new planet, we are introduced to a new Soong-- the son of Soong-- but it's the same old Soong and dance.
Boo! :veryhappy:

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by scottydog » Fri Mar 20, 2020 7:50 pm

Lupine wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:47 pm
RJDiogenes wrote:
Fri Mar 20, 2020 12:25 am
On to the plot: Upon arriving at this new planet, we are introduced to a new Soong-- the son of Soong-- but it's the same old Soong and dance.
Boo! :veryhappy:
Lupy, are you watching this series? I'm curious what you think.

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Re: Star Trek: Picard (aka ST:P)

Post by Lupine » Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:11 pm

No. I keep meaning to, but other things keep coming up.

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