2008 U.S. Presidential Election Discussion

[Captain Cisco]

And the fun continues:

You go into some of these small towns in Pennsylvania, and like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. So it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.

And this snob wants to be president? So was he "clinging" to religion all those years in Rev. Wright's church? I guess that's where he learned to look down on middle America.

For a start, a lot of religious people I know don't "cling" to religion because they are frustrated. Their religion is part of their core being. Secondly, it's not "clinging" to guns to believe in the Second Amendment. Thirdly, I don't know too many people these days who have a problem with LEGAL immigrants to this country. It's the ILLEGAL ones we have a problem with. And anti-trade?? The last time I checked HE was the one who was anti-trade...

Sorry, Senator. If we're frustrated and bitter because we can't count on Washington, it's only because people like you have refused to do the job we elected you to do, and have instead tried to take the government places it was never constitutionally meant to go.

We don't want or need more government, Senator Obama. We don't want or need Washington to fix more of our problems. We don't want or need more entitlement programs. We don't want or need more government poking its nose into more aspects of our lives. And we sure as heck don't want or need some snotty, stare-down-his-nose-in-disdain-at-us liberal in the White House.

The only thing we want and need more of is LESS government.

[Rocketman]

I'm somewhat surprised to see that McCain's campaign is giving Obama a run for his money. I'd assumed that Obama's advantages (undeniable oratory skills, better fundraising, and the fact that he's campaigning against a highly impopular sitting President) would've settled matters much earlier.

I still think he'll win by a narrow margin, though.

Personally, I'd prefer it if America were to elect a 'mature hawk' type; a realpolitiker who will be able to will pick the right fights at the right time. America's obligations in Afghanistan are increasing (a not unrealistic estimate by the IHT put the number of troops required for pacification of the region at 400,000(!)), and the conflict is spilling over into an increasingly unstable Pakistan.

It may be attractive to promise to bring the troops home in the next period, it's also rather unrealistic.

It also looks like the next four years will see the Federal budget put under further pressure by dwindling tax income due to either low growth, high inflation, or both. Raising taxes may be the only economically sensible solution.

Obama may be able to handle these things, but John McCain has far greater credibility in these areas. I'm not particularly charmed by his choice of running mate, but for the moment, I think he's the best choice.

[Captain Cisco]

Well... Barack Obama is the next president.

Agree with him or not, there is no doubt that this is a truly historic moment for my country, and the momentousness of that is not lost on me. I must congratulate Barack Obama for his historic victory, and I pray that God will be with him as he leads this country, and grant him the wisdom to make good decisions on our behalf.

God bless America.

[Zog]

Gotta love how Cisco's post ends.

GOBAMA!

[Theophilus]

It is a dark day in the history of our nation. A man who practices the ways of hate, division, and untruthfullness has been eleveated to the highest power in the world.

God save us all.

[RJDiogenes]

If I knew he was a Republican I wouldn't have Voted for him.

[Teelie]

It is a dark day in the history of our nation. A man who practices the ways of hate, division, and untruthfullness has been eleveated to the highest power in the world.

God save us all.

McCain lost though. If you believe any of that bullshit his campaign spewed then you're either severely ignorant or completely blind to the attacks they made and how out of proportion and out of context they were. They were mostly out right lies.

[Theophilus]

You mean like Obama's preacher being racist or anti-American? This seems pretty damning to me. How can I trust a man to lead this country who has willingly listened to such filth for 20 years? How can such evil that this "preacher" spewed forth not affect a person? Obama placed his spirtual trust in this man for 20 years! And he says God Damn America? Excuse me, I cannot and will not trust Obama because of this.

[RJDiogenes]

But you can trust all of the racist, nationalistic, hate-spewing, anti-American religious fanatics that compose the Republican base?

[Theophilus]

But you can trust all of the racist, nationalistic, hate-spewing, anti-American religious fanatics that compose the Republican base?

How many of them were McCain's spiritual advisor?

[Zog]

But you can trust all of the racist, nationalistic, hate-spewing, anti-American religious fanatics that compose the Republican base?

How many of them were McCain's spiritual advisor?

The answer to that is we don't know. There could be one, for all you know.

[Captain Cisco]

^ Nah. The Main Stream Media would have been all over that, just like they were all over Obama's past associa - Oh wait. I forgot. They weren't...

[RJDiogenes]

That's because with the Republicans it's not news. Rabid, anti-American evangelists are normal for them.

[Theophilus]

It may so naive-heck it may be naive, but I honestly believe that McCain is the real deal. A man who has strong morals and beliefs, and considers his job an honor. I believe that McCain views his position as being like a servant to the American people, a position of trust and leadership entrusted to him by the American people.

Of all the modern politicians, he is the only one who has struck me as presenting that belief. That is probably, more than any other reason, why I supported him so frevently. Not because of my almost rabid dislike of Obama, but because I believe in McCain.

[PrincessWhoopAss]

McCain did have spiritual advisor issues. And don't get me started on Palin's religious affiliations. RJ is correct, though-- it is not unexpected for Republicans to attend hate-spewing churches (and I say this as a life-long registered Republican.)

And I do love you, Theo-- but McCain moral? Talk to his ex wife about that.

[Zog]

The same ex-wife that he very fastly upgraded to the current model.

[Captain Cisco]

That's because with the Republicans it's not news. Rabid, anti-American evangelists are normal for them.

We have "rabid, anti-American evangelists" on the right? Which ones?

[NX2000]

You. If you were evangelical, that is. :P

[RJDiogenes]

Oh, for example.

[Captain Cisco]

^ And what about them makes them "anti-American?"

NX, anyone who knows me knows there is nothing anti-American about me. Not too sure about the "rabid" part, but I am evangelical. Yes, it is possible to be that even when Catholic. The word "evangelical" defines an approach to one's Christianity - i.e. to "evangelize," as in to spread the Gospel both by word and action. While it has come to be used to describe Protestants of a more fundamentalist view, it is really a misnomer.

[NX2000]

I was attempting to be dry and witty. Apparently it dinna work. I appologize.

[RJDiogenes]

^ And what about them makes them "anti-American?"

They not only oppose American values, such as equality, freedom of expression et cetera, but they crusade to legislate their internal rules into public law; the recent anti-marriage laws that were passed are one example.

[Captain Cisco]

Sorry. Your argument doesn't convince me that they are the un-American ones. If you want un-American, take a look at some of the tactics of the Left: stifiling free speech, stifiling religious expression, judicial override of the will of the people, socialist-style government programs, wealth redistribution, etc.

(A note: "Anti-American" implies an opposition to America, i.e. against America. It's a term one would ascribe to an enemy, i.e. "the Iranian President and his Anti-American rhetoric." "Un-American" means in violation of established American values, conventions, and traditions. I don't believe EITHER side is truly opposed to America itself - i.e. not an enemy of America - thus I do not use the term "anti-American" to describe the opposing views. I want to clear that up because I believe that words do matter, and can mean the difference between a spirited debate of opposing views and a heated argument full of acrimony and defensiveness.)

[RJDiogenes]

^^ Either way, it means opposing American values, whether they genuinely believe it's for the good of this particular piece of real estate or not.

And I never said the Right Wing was exclusively anti- or un-American-- all conservative ideologies are, both Right Wing and Left Wing. This is a liberal country, founded by liberal men, based on liberal values. However, I suspect that your description of the Left as stifling religious expression and employing judicial override of the will of the people is more of a rhetorical gambit than anything substantive.