Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

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Re: Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

#126 Post by PhoenixHope » March 6th, 2013, 12:05 am

Okay, so I thought I'd gotten specific with something I said, but then on a reread realized that I had not.

PhoenixHope wrote:I think I wouldn't mind seeing Artemis as long as they didn't turn her into a love interest - what I mean is keep her all very serious and badass and this would be a good character.


It's not that I'm saying Artemis cannot be a love interest, it's more that when Supernatural brings a character in/back for the express purpose of being a love interest they kinda suck at it. So, yeah, it would be great to see Artemis again, but keep her as a whole character don't reduce her to a love interest.

I don't even know how or why they might bring her back, but if they do then just bring her back and let things play and then if in the course of that something happens (say between Artemis and Sam, because lets face it that would make more sense than Artemis/Dean) then it happens. I'm just saying don't bring her back just to have her be a love interest - not meaning to say there can't ever be love there just that it shouldn't be the only reason to keep her around.
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Re: Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

#127 Post by RJDiogenes » March 6th, 2013, 12:22 am

They might bring her back as the new Queen of Olympus. Olympus is going to need a new boss. :D
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Supernatural 8x17 "Goodbye Stranger"

#128 Post by PhoenixHope » March 20th, 2013, 1:36 am

Supernatural 8x17 "Goodbye Stranger"

Episode Description
(From CWTV.com)

SAM, DEAN, CASTIEL AND MEG TEAM UP AGAINST CROWLEY AND HIS DEMONS — Castiel reappears in Sam and Dean’s life and tells them Crowley (guest star Mark Sheppard) has unleashed several demons into a small town. The demons are looking for Lucifer’s Crypt, which holds a valuable asset, but Castiel lies to Sam and Dean about what it is. While interrogating a demon, the three discover Crowley has been torturing Meg (guest star Rachel Miner), who knows the exact location of the crypt. Sam and Meg fight to hold Crowley off while Dean and Castiel go in search of the crypt.
Thomas J. Wright directed the episode written by Robbie Thompson.


GAH! What the hell is with all the actresses going blond here lately? Emma Stone who's original hair color is way prettier than her new blond look, and now Meg. Really Meg when did you find the time to go blond since being kidnapped and tortured by Crowley? Or is the crack theory I saw somewhere about Crowley giving out hairstyles as a form of torture about to be proven correct.

More I think about that the more I like it. Crowley's super secret desire isn't to be the King of Hell, but to be the King of Hair, but poor thing he just can't get out of that whole King of Hell gig.

*sigh* Still doesn't explain Emma Stone, though.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
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Re: Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

#129 Post by RJDiogenes » March 20th, 2013, 10:59 pm

Maybe blondes have more fun.

I wonder what Lucifer's Crypt is. Maybe the evil alternative to the Men of Letters bunker.

And will we finally learn something about Naomi this week?
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Re: Supernatural 8x17 "Goodbye Stranger"

#130 Post by PhoenixHope » March 20th, 2013, 11:48 pm

I don't know why, but crap like that just pisses me off, really. I mean when we last saw Meg she had brown hair and was being whisked off for endless torture by Crowley, but now she's back and also blond. Now that would be fine if Meg had just ran off after the events, but she didn't from all intell we have Meg has been with Crowley since the last time we saw her, so it has to be Crowley for whatever reason that gave her the new do.

Yes, I know there are outside the show 'splains for it, but I need something that works inside the show, and all things considered Meg just suddenly being blond only works if Crowley did it, because Meg has been his "guest" since the last time we saw her.

RJDiogenes wrote:Maybe blondes have more fun.


BULLSHIT!

As someone who has been blond I can tell you that I didn't have anymore fun while I was blond - in fact it may be the other way around, though that could be cause and affect, because I've spent more of my life not blond than I have blond.
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Re: Supernatural 8x17 Goodbye Stranger

#131 Post by PhoenixHope » March 21st, 2013, 7:45 pm

So, um, apparently I cannot review this episode without insulting everybody (writers/Carver/Singer/etc.) and their mothers while doing so. *sigh* I guess it wasn't a bad episode, but clearly I hated it. Sad because I didn't think I was hating this episode that much while watching (though I knew I wasn't loving it) but so far I've tried three reviews and all three of them have been of such nasty that even I'm too lady-like to post them.

Trying again now.

Hour and a half later:

Supernatural 8x17 Goodbye Stranger

So, the third time wasn't the charm - hopefully the fourth time will get it done. Though I guess you might be able to count this as a third try, because the second time all I could manage to write/type was "WHAT THE EVER LOVING FUCK IS THIS SHIT!" And this time mostly all I did was remove a few chucks of text from the third try.

I guess I'll start with what ticked me off the most... Okay, NOT the most, because a little something between Dean and Sam at the end of the episode ticked me off the most. *sigh*

MEG! Cass lives but Meg is dead and that pisses me off in ways that I can't really explain. Yeah, I've crossed the Cass hating threshold now, and not because of Cass himself, not really, but because Meg was killed and now every time I see Cass on-screen in an episode I will be thinking about this every time. Yet another chick dead while yet another white cock lives on. Yes, I can understand why they killed Meg - clearly the show is coming to the end of its demon story, so it's not that killing Meg doesn't make sense. But it's the fact that the damn angel story should've been over by the end of season six - yet because this show can't bring itself to kill Cass or at least remove him from being an angel that story keeps getting warmed over and redone while better characters than Cass keep getting picked off.

That and the fact that the show keeps giving Sam's stories to Cass because for whatever reason they (the show-runners) are too lazy to actually come up with something original for Cass. Seriously, at this point it seems like the entire point of Cass's existence is to take over Sam's place. And after last night I'd be okay with that. Write Sam out replace him with Cass, because that's clearly what you want to do (the show) and at least that would be just the thing I'd need to actually make a clean break from this show, and hell the writers would clearly be happier this way as well because they could finally write the show the way they want to without having to bother with "ol' what's his name - you know the tall guy!"

Worse still I'm not happy with the way they handled Meg before they killed her, though I do sorta understand why they did it the way they did. But part of the reason I liked Meg was because Meg was badass - it's why I had trouble warming up to Meg 2.0, because I'm sorry but RM just never managed to come across as badass as NAs Meg. However, RMs Meg had her moments, but this episode tried to soften her up even more before killing her, which didn't work for me. Nor did the stupid insert about Sam having yet more endless "I want out!" crap (Yeah, Sam at this point I want you out to, so I can get out). You know what show I meant what I said above - I'd be totally okay at this point if you really want to write Sam out and have Dean and Cass team up, because after last night's episode I just don't care. AND I'm tired of the Sam wanting normal nail being hammered so badly that I'd honestly be okay with Sam no longer being on this show or being an eternal side story, because I wouldn't be watching anymore and hoping yet again that Sam will get some kind of interesting story.

Finally as if the above wasn't bad enough then comes the real crap! GAH! Who wrote this episode again? Because they should be forced to give back the money they earned writing it. Seriously. Dean is once again pissed at Sam for lying, except this time Sam wasn't actually lying. I recall this scene an episode or two ago where Sam was all set to tell Dean the truth, but Dean truth-blocked him because now Dean wanted to believe everything would be rosy. So it doesn't make sense that Dean is pissed about Sam lying here because Dean practically got down on his knees and demanded Sam lie to him. Of course, that's just par for the course of this episode, because when you start thinking about it very little here actually works.

However, I can admit that the first half hour wasn't bad, it's just that when this episode went bad it almost literally went to hell in hand-basket.

In the end, there's so much else I could say - so much else I kinda want to say, or at least so much commentary I'd like to put back into this review, but I worked so hard to clean it up and take most of the extensive ranting out, and personally I think in doing all this I've already given this episode way more attention than it deserves. Though I will add the guest star they're bringing back next week played one of the stupidest characters to ever character on this show and if said character makes it out of the episode alive when Meg did not make it out of this episode alive... UGH! I'm a-gonna stop there, because I can always bitch about this next week. Stupid characters keep living while good characters keep dying.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

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Re: Supernatural 8x17 "Goodbye Stranger"

#132 Post by RJDiogenes » March 21st, 2013, 11:26 pm

PhoenixHope wrote:BULLSHIT!

Heh. "Blondes have more fun" was a popular advertising slogan and cliche back in the 60s-- what they call a meme nowadays.

I was sorry to see Meg go, too, but I knew she was doomed when she was being all sentimental. But I wonder if she is really permanently dead. I can see Cass finding a way to bring her back after that little moment that they had.

I didn't think the episode was that bad. I really liked Cass breaking free of Naomi. And, while we didn't learn what Naomi's status really is or what she's really up to, we did find out that she has a history with Crowley. Apparently some good times back in Mesopotamia. Wow. :D

As for Meg's hair, they actually did mention it being part of Crowley's torture, which I guess was an amusing in-joke, but it doesn't make sense-- even if the actress has changed her hair, why not just give her a wig? Shatner wore one, so why not Meg?
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Re: Supernatural 8x17 "Goodbye Stranger"

#133 Post by PhoenixHope » March 22nd, 2013, 12:22 am

RJDiogenes wrote:I didn't think the episode was that bad. I really liked Cass breaking free of Naomi.


I couldn't even enjoy that because it's sorta just more proof that every story this show gives Sam will eventually be handed over to that damn angel, which to be fair I could be okay with if the show would ever allow the characters to acknowledge that Cass is Sam's story just a few steps behind. I mean seriously they have every other character monologue from time to time I don't see why Sam or Cass couldn't do it, instead Sam (or Carver) is gonna endlessly wangst over Amelia and Cass is gonna stay firmly planted in/up Dean's ass.

RJDiogenes wrote:And, while we didn't learn what Naomi's status really is or what she's really up to, we did find out that she has a history with Crowley. Apparently some good times back in Mesopotamia. Wow. :D


Which to quote myself is BULLSHIT!

Crowley ain't that damn old! But considering the writers for this show can no longer keep up with what happened in the previous episode I guess it's stupid to expect them to keep up with stuff from years ago.

RJDiogenes wrote:As for Meg's hair, they actually did mention it being part of Crowley's torture, which I guess was an amusing in-joke, but it doesn't make sense-- even if the actress has changed her hair, why not just give her a wig? Shatner wore one, so why not Meg?


Well, see that bit was tossed in for me - someone was trying to placate the beast because they knew the beast wasn't gonna like what was coming. But that's what I mean when I say by then I wasn't feeling like I'd enjoyed anything about this epsiode, when I did actually enjoy that.

KING OF HAIR for the win! It also makes me think that's why Crowley's flirting with Sam, because this season honestly some Jared awesome hair is bleeding over to slimy Sam hair. Seriously, this season his hair is awesome. And you could almost see Crowley just itching to get his hands on it.

But again as I said by the end of the episode I just couldn't...

And seriously I know you think they'll bring Meg back, but in the history of the show dead female characters don't come back to life while dead male characters pop back up every five seconds. Seriously, with this shows history I'd bet good money that they'd bring Bobby back yet again before they'd even consider bringing Meg back.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

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Re: Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

#134 Post by RJDiogenes » March 22nd, 2013, 11:20 pm

Hmm. I had forgotten that Crowley started out as a ghost just a couple of hundred years ago. That does seem to be a major error.
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Re: Supernatural 8x17 "Goodbye Stranger"

#135 Post by PhoenixHope » March 23rd, 2013, 3:14 am

RJDiogenes wrote:Hmm. I had forgotten that Crowley started out as a ghost just a couple of hundred years ago. That does seem to be a major error.


To be fair if this was a better show I'd expect that to be important. But when you have a show that can't keep in-season continuity straight I think it's stupid to expect them to be using this dis-continuity as an important plot bit. It's just more "lol canon - what canon?"

Actually, this whole episode was almost like Sam/Amelia all over again, really. With Sam/Amelia the bright lighting to the weird interacting made it seem fantasy, and then the fact that as far as the audience is concerned the whole thing came out of nowhere. Instead of this leading any place it should in the hands of a better show - nope it's all true love no trickery at all. BULLSHIT!

But seriously almost everything about the Sam/Amelia part of the story screamed mystery reveal ahead. And I do mean everything: Sam leaves in the middle of the night - runs across mysteriously (at least from his point of view) alive!Dean but he totally isn't surprised at all and admits that he doesn't need tests because he knows it's Dean!

Need more? You shouldn't, but I do have more.

There's the mysterious shadow figure watching, but again that lead nowhere. And none of it has been explained within the show itself. NONE! And the mysterious shadow figure NOTHING! That at the very least seemed to indicate that there was something of substance under the shallow surface, but now we're getting toward the end of the season and for all intents and purposes the Sam/Amelia part of the story is over and we still don't have a good 'Splainy for any of it.

I mean, really, can we believe what Cass even said about Sam? Probably. On a better show - no way, Cass would've clearly been lying because taking on one of them would be easier than taking on both of them. Yet I expect we're supposed to take Cass's comments about Sam's health or lack thereof at face value.

And it's the same with the Crowley stuff - on a better show this would've been the place to reveal Cass and Crowley was being lying liars that lie back when it seemed confirmed that all things considered Crowley is young, and perhaps that whole thing was staged between Cass and Crowley so they could get on with their mission without the Winchesters being none the wiser.
(There are even other ways that could be done and still make the reveal about Crowley's "life" true - I've seen fans in other places speculating about things, and all those fans I feel safe saying are putting more thought into this then the people getting paid to make this show are.)

Another thing about this episode is that instead of just taking the tablet from Dean Cass didn't actually touch it until Dean was not touching it. On another show that would be a clue. Perhaps a clue that the tablet was meant for Dean and it could only be taken from him when he lets it go. With this show I seriouly doubt that actually meant anything at all. That was all just there so Cass could beat Dean bloody even if it makes no sense that Cass would need to do that (except for whatever reason this show feels that it needs to give all Sam's stuff to Cass) - he could've used angel powers to remove the tablet from Dean's hands.

So that's why I say I wasn't a good person to review this episode, because nothing about the content of it resonated emotionally for me, which meant that I was able to see through all of the distracting (meant to be anyway) emotional content to the horrible story flaws all over this episode, and in fact this episode actually stirred anti-emotions for me. Yes, this episode was clearly trying to push emotional buttons, but it didn't hit a single one for me, and that's why there's nothing in this episode that softened the flaws to the point where I could ignore/overlook.

Even Meg's death, while it pisses me off, doesn't really emotionally resonate for me, because in many ways that wasn't Meg that was killed. Yes, I was equally pissed when Lenore was killed, but since Lenore was still Lenore when that happened and within the context of the story it worked I was able to move on from that. But I have no such emotion for the version of Meg they killed in this episode, and not because of the actress, but because they tweaked her so much in the episode itself that when they killed her it didn't feel like they'd killed Meg. And that's why (I think) it pisses me off so bad because it feels like they killed her just because she might get her icky vagina on Cass, and that might offend Dean/Cass shippers so she had to die! UGH!
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

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Re: Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

#136 Post by RJDiogenes » March 23rd, 2013, 9:23 pm

Well, maybe they do have something in mind for Crowley-- or maybe when the mistake is pointed out to them it will force them to be creative. It's kind of mind-boggling that nobody involved in the production (especially the Crowley actor) remembered that.

Has anybody associated with the show said anything?
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Re: Supernatural 8x17 "Goodbye Stranger"

#137 Post by PhoenixHope » March 24th, 2013, 8:27 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:Has anybody associated with the show said anything?


Not that I know of, though yesterday I was in the midst of an endless work shift. Now Friday (I think) the actor playing Crowley had responded but since (no offense) he's just an actor and not a writer or PTB he wouldn't have any way of knowing if it actually meant anything or was just more season eight "lol, canon - what canon!"
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
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Re: Supernatural 8x17 "Goodbye Stranger"

#138 Post by PhoenixHope » March 25th, 2013, 5:39 am

Well, you can tell by the above that I was feeling like crap - I have now since taken medicine and a nap, though the nap might've been a bad idea, because instead of sleeping a couple hours I went to sleep around five and didn't wake until about ten which means I'm probably not sleeping tonight. But I almost don't care, because at least I feel better now and not like refriend beans AND warmed over crap, though I still don't feel perfect.

Anyway, I can't find it again, but yes Mark S said something about how maybe the stuff in this episode was true and that maybe Cass and Crowley was lying way back. Though that really doesn't cover it, because it wasn't just Cass and Crowley - there was also that whole bit with Crowley's son and all.

However, what I didn't mention above is that even if the PTB said anything about this I'm not entirely sure it would make it better. Because they have said some things about the Sam/Amelia stuff from early in the season.

For example, Sam (apparently) just often up and left Amelia in the middle of the night to head to the cabin. *shrug* Which I suppose does explain why Sam showed up while Dean was there, but totally does nothing to address the fact that Sam was totes unsurprised to find Dean there AND the fact that he didn't need no tests to know it was Dean, especially since from the shows point of view Sam believed Dean was most totally and sincerely dead, which in and of itself doesn't make sense based on the shows history - but more proof of "canon - whatever!" mentality.

So even if the creative team weighs in it doesn't necessarily mean what they say will make anything actually make more sense.

Oh and according to "them" the mysterious figure watching the house as Sam left Amelia was merely Don. Which makes no sense, really. I mean I guess it makes Don a little creepy, but that's about all it does. But seriously why would he be outside in the dark watching Sam leave Amelia I mean it's not like Sam and Amelia didn't know he was back - events later in the season reveal that by that point Sam and Amelia would've known Don was back - so there'd be no need for the Don character to be creepy stalking her/them. So ergo even with writers comments that whole thing is still a big WTF.

But the above is basically why I've decided if it ain't on-screen then I don't have to believe it (I can come up with something else, though even then for some of this shit it's harder than it should be to make it make any kind of sense), and then even sometimes because of the big WTF factors even if it does end up on-screen I don't have to believe it.

But that's basically what I meant when I said that no offense to Mark S, but he probably has no way of knowing what the writers was thinking and therefore has no way to even begin to explain it. But I guess as an actor he would've probably had to come up with something himself to be able to play the scene.
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Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
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Re: Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

#139 Post by RJDiogenes » March 25th, 2013, 11:41 pm

The whole thing with Amelia and Don made no sense-- it just fizzled with no resolution. I have a feeling they had plans for the season that they abandoned for some reason.
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Supernatural 8x18 "Freaks and Geeks"

#140 Post by PhoenixHope » March 26th, 2013, 11:28 pm

Supernatural 8x18 "Freaks and Geeks"

Episode Description
(From CWTV.com)

SAM AND DEAN RUN ACROSS A NEW AND UNUSUAL TEAM OF HUNTERS — Sam and Dean investigate some recent vampire kills and are surprised to learn Krissy Chambers (guest star Madison McLaughlin) is involved. They find Krissy and learn her father was killed and she’s been taken in by a man named Victor (guest star Adrian Hough), who has taken in a group of orphan kids to teach them how to hunt. Victor is helping the teenagers find the vampires who took their parents so they can get revenge. Sam is intrigued by Victor’s method of giving the teenagers a home life as well as a hunting life, but Dean is suspicious of Victor’s motives.
John F. Showalter directed the episode written by Adam Glass.
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Re: Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

#141 Post by RJDiogenes » March 27th, 2013, 10:25 pm

Victor's a Vampire!
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Re: Supernatural 8x18 "Freaks and Geeks"

#142 Post by PhoenixHope » March 28th, 2013, 3:29 pm

Supernatural 8x18 Freaks and Geeks

Well, the only part of this episode that was great was the stuff just after the title card and was pretty much over after about two and a half minutes. The teaser could've been greatly improved if all the annoying ones had been killed, but it still would've been a little better if even one of them had been killed. But of course not because this is Supernatural and the people behind Supernatural don't actually have balls big enough to actually off a kid, so I'm resigned to this boring piece of shit that I can pretty much guess what happens right now.

Nope, you know what? I'm not so resigned - I ended up only watching about 20-25 minutes of this episode and then only the parts where Dean and Sam was both on screen together.

However, I will say this in the end since they didn't kill Krissy or one of her stupid stupid pals they could've at least balled up and allowed Krissy to actually kill that human piece of shit. Instead she was only allowed to click an empty gun at him and then the asswipe helpfully offed himself since our dainty dainty characters obviously couldn't sully themselves by killing someone. Why I mean, seriously, killing someone - why I just couldn't. Oh my, the vapors - the vapors - help me, kind sir, because even the mere thought gives me the vapors.

Remember when this show was kinda bad ass? Yeah, neither do I really anymore.

I could say more, but honestly at this point I'm even tired of bitching about this show.

Though I find that I have to at least mention the following: Krissy being all "I don't care - I'll do what I want whatever - if they find out that's good." Holy crap! Sweetie, you are a dumbass. If you really are the cream of the next generation crop the SupernaturalVerse is most sincerely doomed.

But I mean, really, you beheaded a guy on camera! And from what was on the video it wasn't obvious that the dude was a vampire. So what do you honestly think would've happened if the cops came a-knocking? Best case you would've found yourself locked away for mental health reasons because to the general public vampires don't exist and you beheading one on camera proves nothing when it's not obvious on the video that dude was a vampire. Or you and your little band of dumbasses would find yourselves on trial for his brutal murder, but what wouldn't happen is the masses cheering you on. Sure some kooks on the side, but the general public would be horrified because you guys freakin' beheaded a man on camera in what looked like from the camera's point of view pretty cold blood.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

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Re: Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

#143 Post by RJDiogenes » March 28th, 2013, 11:25 pm

I knew you'd hate this one. :lol:

It wasn't exactly my favorite episode, either, but the one thing that would have made me like it would have made you hate it more. It was really pretty stupid of them to leave these three kids out there on their own (underage and living in a house they don't own and whose owner just committed suicide) when they have that handy dandy Men of Letters bunker where they are supposed to be building up their own next generation. What the hell were they thinking?
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Re: Supernatural 8x18 "Freaks and Geeks"

#144 Post by PhoenixHope » March 29th, 2013, 12:51 am

RJDiogenes wrote:What the hell were they thinking?


I'll tell you what they was thinking - they did NOT want me to start finding and sending pics of muliated kittens and puppies to them. I mean obviously I'm not gonna hurt puppies or kittens, but I'm sure bad pics exist on the internet. :evil:

Truthfully, I don't think they was thinking at all with this episode, or they wasn't thinking in the previous one. I don't even know at this point.

But remember last week when Dean was practically sporting a boner from the idea that someone was killing demons just after a scene where it's made perfectly clear that the someone killing said demons was also killing humans. You know just like Dean and Sam do.

Yet this week Dean is all - "there's an innocent person inside that vampire - we must save her! Why, heaven forbid, that we might kill a human who's been turned into a vampire. That's somehow not at all like a human being posessed by a demon - don't ask me how, cause I don't know, but it is because I say it is!"

Damn it! Apparently I couldn't stop myself from saying it. I really wasn't going to, but DAMN IT ALL SINGER/CARVER CAN WE AT LEAST GET SOME CONSISTANCY ALL UP IN THIS BITCH, PLEASE! I mean, I know, you've got that so-not-cool "lol, canon" thing going on, but doncha think it would be nice if you could at least keep your own damn season consistant!

Skype, sweetie, it exists for talking to people who are not in the same place you are. Why you can even have meetings and discuss things so consistancy might accidentally happen, but I guess we can't have that. Son, does consistancy give you the vapors?

PS -
RJDiogenes wrote:I knew you'd hate this one. :lol:

It wasn't exactly my favorite episode, either, but the one thing that would have made me like it would have made you hate it more. It was really pretty stupid of them to leave these three kids out there on their own (underage and living in a house they don't own and whose owner just committed suicide) when they have that handy dandy Men of Letters bunker where they are supposed to be building up their own next generation. What the hell were they thinking?


Did you feel that? I just used my epic powers to reach through the internets and slap you aside the head. :p
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

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Re: Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

#145 Post by RJDiogenes » March 29th, 2013, 10:58 pm

Ow. My head. :shock:

As for Dean wanting to save the Vampire, I just took that as typical hypocritical adult behavior in front of children. "Do as I say, not as I do!" :D
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Supernatural 8x19 "Taxi Driver"

#146 Post by PhoenixHope » April 2nd, 2013, 11:21 pm

Supernatural 8x19 "Taxi Driver"

Episode Description
(From CWTV.com)

SAM AND DEAN FACE THE SECOND TRIAL — Sam and Dean respond to a call from Kevin (guest star Osric Chau), who is terrified after hearing Crowley’s (guest star Mark Sheppard) voice in his head. After hearing Kevin’s news, Sam and Dean team up with reaper named Ajay (guest star Assaf Cohen), who helps them deal with the second trial from the Tablet. Meanwhile, Dean receives a visit from Naomi (guest star Amanda Tapping) and realizes he must find Benny (guest star Ty Olsson) and ask for a huge favor.
Guy Bee directed the episode written by Eugenie Ross-Leming & Brad Buckner.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

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Re: Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

#147 Post by RJDiogenes » April 3rd, 2013, 11:16 pm

All right! The return of Benny. 8)

I wonder how they'll manage to team up with a Reaper.
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Re: Supernatural 8x19 "Taxi Driver"

#148 Post by PhoenixHope » April 4th, 2013, 9:20 pm

Supernatural 8x19 Taxi Driver

Well, I don't know, I guess first I must laugh - I did say when Meg was killed that this show would bring Bobby back before they even thought of bringing Meg back and surprise surprise I was right, and yet strangely I'm not annoyed or pissed over this. I don't know I guess I just feel in the context of the story it worked, AND this doesn't bring Bobby back for good just for a nice one-off. Also, I suppose the blow was softened by the fact that Benny was killed in this episode, though admittedly I don't like that. It's like I said when the show killed Meg this show keeps killing off the good characters and keeping the ones that are past their sell by date. Though even then I suppose Benny's death was at least chilling unlike Meg's - who again it feels like they killed just because she might get her evil va-jay-jay on Cass and thus offend the Dean/Cass shippers. On the other hand, I guess I'm not one to talk because this episode killed off Mrs. Tran and I could only feel gladness in my heart over that, though not because she was about to get her va-jay-jay on some male character, but because I found her to be a terrible character in her own right. I also find myself hoping (but doubtful) that Kevin Tran is also dead, but somehow I doubt Crowley would simply kill him at this point.
(The biggest problem with Benny was actually Sam's out of character reaction to him - otherwise the character was not bad, could've been interesting maybe if the show had painted him in more shades of gray, though. Of course, for the first half of the season Sam was just entirely out of character period, and to be fair there's still shades of that now. The biggest problem with Mrs. Tran was that they tried to make her sassy and that just ended up coming off as her looking like a trying too hard to be kwel dumbass.)

Otherwise I think the truth is that this episode sucked in just about every way, BUT I think I kinda liked it anyway, though I think this would've been better as a multi-episode arc rather than a one-off. But seriously when the episode ended I found myself thinking that if you was going to clusterfuck a show at least this was a good way to do that because during the episode shit actually happened - shit besides warmed over and refried wangst. However, as I said, the episode was may be definitively bad, because seriously hell is now basically a walk-in closet - not to mention purgatory. Didn't Naomi mention Angels losing their lives in rescuing Castiel? Well, this episode does cause one to ask "Why? Are they that stupid that they couldn't just con the Reaper into getting them in and out. I mean, really."
(But then Sam gets Bobby out oh-so-surprisingly easy that it's hard to understand why Cass and company had such a problem getting Dean out back in the summer between season three and four.)

But again seriously this episode had enough shit crammed in for three or four episodes, and if they'd stretched them out a bit perhaps they couldn't have had to make getting in and out of hell and purgatory quite so easy.

Otherwise, though I just don't have a lot to say except perhaps before season nine starts even pre-production they (the Supernatural PTB) really should splurge and hire someone to read through and maybe even rewrite (if necessary) some stuff in the episodes so there wouldn't be this level of continuity problems. I mean, I thought that was a job of the show-runner, but it clearly doesn't seem to be, so again maybe hire someone for just this purpose, so at least maybe the show could remain in-season consistent even if over-all consistency is a deluded dream at this point. I mean honestly I doubt anyone other than a fan could keep the whole canon straight at this point, but surely they could find someone who could at least help them keep the in-season continuity straight. Though at this point I'm honestly not sure it matters, because while I plan on finishing season eight I don't know if I'll even bother to come back for season nine.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

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Re: Supernatural Season Eight Episode Discussion Thread

#149 Post by RJDiogenes » April 4th, 2013, 11:37 pm

The thing I found a little vexing was that Sam found Bobby so easily once in Hell. They should have had some gimmick to explain that.

As for the rest, now that they know how to get out of Purgatory, it would naturally be easier. And up until now they had no idea that Reapers could smuggle anyone in and out of Heaven or Hell (or Purgatory). So that much doesn't bother me. And as for Naomi saying that many Angels were lost in rescuing Castiel, I think she's just a liar-- she probably just bribed a Reaper.

I actually thought this was a really good episode. I liked seeing Benny again, and he certainly proved himself to Sam. And, of course, I loved seeing Bobby and I'm glad he was definitively sent to Heaven-- although I wonder what Naomi might do to him once he's there. As Bobby said, Heaven is not the greatest place, either.

And I wonder if Mrs Tran is really dead and if Kevin was really captured. He was hallucinating all through the episode, so maybe he just lost it and kidnapped himself.
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Re: Supernatural 8x19 "Taxi Driver"

#150 Post by PhoenixHope » April 5th, 2013, 12:50 am

RJDiogenes wrote:The thing I found a little vexing was that Sam found Bobby so easily once in Hell. They should have had some gimmick to explain that.


Oh it's more than that, really. Sam based on history (LOL, canon) should've been a little more "scared" at the thought of being in any part of hell. Worse still is that by taking Sam to hell by way of purgatory they could've used this as a way to show Sam some of the crap Dean dealt with during his year there - instead it's an easy pop in and just as easy pop out. Nothing ventured - nothing gained.
(Of course, you're also right they could've had the Reaper give Sam some magical locator or something and that would've kept much of the WTF out of the ease of Bobby finding in hell at least.)

But like I say despite the problems I actually didn't hate this episode. To be honest if the super awesome making me so emotional Justified season finale hadn't aired this same week I might've loved this episode of Supernatural, but watching other good shows sorta show that whoever is in charge of Supernatural this season (be it Carver or Singer) just don't have the chops to keep this show on the level of other shows, or they just don't care. To be honest, at this point I'm just not sure which.

Seriously, though -

Justified SPOILERS to follow:
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So, to simplify things this season of Justified was all about all the building blocks that make a person who they are. An abusive asshole Arlo Givens made Raylan Givens (a US Marshal and our hero, and what a hero he is) the driven man he is today. But despite Raylan being the star (and hero) this show manages to give every character a rich background even the bad guys.

In broader and even simpler strokes this season was about hunting a wanted man (Drew Tompson aka Jim Beaver aka Sheriff Shelby) and to put it in Art's words (Art is Raylan's boss - a job no one would actually want) the man is fairly badass. He shot a mob boss in the eye and then waved happily as his partner in crime jumped out of an airplane with a bad shoot (bad because he tampered with it is very much implied but never officially confirmed) and then went into hiding. As though that wasn't enough he then had the balls to get himself into law enforcement not once but twice. HeHe Not to mention that before he revealed he was the man they was looking for he spent a wee speck of time working with Raylan. To be fair, Raylan didn't trust him, but that's just Raylan.

Anyway, in the run up to the season finale Boyd Crowder (Raylan's frenemy and bad guy of Harlan County) comes into much money, but because his soon to be wife (Ava) killed a man some time ago (and the slightly stupid whore who Drew decided to take with him when he was trying to escape Harlan) loses said money fairly quickly. You see, Drew decided to save the hooker by taking her to the back-woods badguys, and the head BWBG decided to sell both of them to Ava, but when Ava and company get there with the money the deals changed he will sell one of them for the agreed price. Boyd wants the hooker, because she could break Ava, but Ava convinces him to get Drew, because the littlest hooker isn't that much of a threat. Boyd doesn't like it, but does as she asks.

However, Boyd has a rat on his team by the name of Johnny Crowder - who's also in love with Ava (and I mean who wouldn't be - Ava is awesome, and is where much of my ~feels~ from this episode comes from. PS - Ava is also an X of Raylan's) and awhile back tried to make a deal with the mob to get his cousin Boyd out the way so he could run Harlan county. This does not end well for him, but basically knowing he's screwed because he has no hope of getting Drew Tompson he sells out to Raylan and the marshalls, so just as the bad guys are about to get their hands on Drew Raylan and the marshalls show up to piss in their cheerios by rescuing Drew.
(Of course, they then have to get Drew out of Harlan which isn't as easy as it sounds.)

Crap! I didn't mean to get into all this, basically I wanted to say that as awesome as the Justified season finale was it pissed me off just as much as Supernatural has over the course of season eight, but unlike Supernatural Justified pissed me off in the way I wish all shows would piss me off - not because there was logic gaps, plot holes, and all manner of character/continuity issues, but because the characters feel like real people (because they've been so richly and consistantly drawn) that I hate when shit goes belly up for them even if you can in fact see it (the shit) coming.
(Even if the people behind Supernatural get their shit together - season eight with all it's problems is still gonna be there mocking them forever, unless they did/do end up pulling a Dallas with season eight.)

Anyway, I love Ava - all you really need to know about Ava is that she is awesome and badass and all will love her and despair! - and she got royally screwed in this episode AND NOT in the good way. Now to be fair they (the very bad men) was trying to screw Boyd (and if you watched the show you can kinda understand why, but Boyd is kinda awesome too) but Ava's the one that gets caught with the dead body of the man she killed and then stole from the morgue to make the law think they unearthed the wrong man, and the littlest hooker just be telling weird stories.
(Basically when this happened I literally tried to jump into my TV so I could save her, because she's Ava and damn it you do not fuck with my Ava! To tie this into Supernatural at least a little - Ava is sorta how I imagine Misha's wife - "You give those boys all the hand jobs you need to at work today, hon!" To give context - they was headed to a rich people sexy party and Boyd was afraid Ava's hotness would lead to idiot horn dogs and he was worried about her giving hand-jobs, but because Ava is just so damn awesome by the end of the conversation she'd turned it back on him.)

But then there's more awesome. There's our hero Raylan and Winonna - who's Winonna you ask? Why she's Raylan's ex-wife and the soon to be mother of his child, and she is also so much awesome! (Not as awesome as Ava, but pretty damn close.) But anyway because Raylan pissed in the bad guys cheerios that comes back to bite him on the ass here. The bad guys have kidnapped Winonna (is it really kidnapping when they haven't actually removed her from her home? Taken hostage would be a better way to phrase it, I suppose) and basically telling Raylan that if he doesn't do what they want (helping them get at/to Drew) they be gonna kill the mother of his child and very very violently at that.
(They can has to die now, basically!)

In a twist that proves why it's not just Raylan who loves Winonna before Raylan showed up she told the bad guys that if they left before Raylan showed up they might just live to see another day. They didn't heed her advice and as expected Raylan (and Winonna) kills them all. HeHe!

This comes back around later when Raylan is pissed that they came after his family but is cock-blocked by his boss. Basically told that if he does after the bad man he needn't bother coming back. Well, you know Raylan isn't just going to enjoy his enforced time off and let the law handle it. Raylan goes to Boyd and gets Boyd to take him to a meeting with the very bad men, and at this point I figure Raylan is just going to kill the bastard (and I think so does Boyd) because this leads to a convo about how they both lie to themselves about the kind of men they are - they both believe themselves to be good men, but Boyd while he has his moments is not a good man and Raylan is (and probably always shall be) on the edge.

But I still think having Boyd drive him to and from the murder scene is going to bite him on the ass later even if as far as the people Raylan works with are concerned Raylan had nothing to do with the murder, because you see Raylan gets all cop badass telling the bad guy that he's going to die in the limo. The bad guy says "empty cop threats - I'm a-gonna kill everybody including my new boss!"

So, Raylan gets out of the limo without shooting the bad guy, and at that point I was expecting the limo to just explode. But, no, Raylan basically set-up a mob hit. He called the bad guys new boss, and the new bad guy asks if Raylan can really walk away from this knowing what's gonna happen (a shoot out!) and Raylan is like "watch me walk away" and then he walks away!
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END SPOILERS FOR Justified!

Basically, Carver/Singer if you want to do the soapy thing you need to watch shows like Justified and Pretty Little Liars instead of your little daytime dramas. Because then you could avoid the bland boring love interests like Lisa and Amelia and bring in awesome ones like Ava and Winonna.

Also, you realize that Benny is only dead because special snow-flake Sam insisted he must do this alone, right? If, as Dean wanted, Dean had gone with Sam then he could have led them to the purgatory exit point and no one would've had to die - monster or otherwise. Because even if Sam has to do this alone (which is new informations) then he still failed - Bobby helped and thanks to Dean Benny also helped which means in the end SAM DID NOT FUCKING DO IT ALONE! And that line was just there as bullshit so the episode could have Dean killing Benny.

But seriously Dean had fought with the hell-hound before Sam stepped in and killed it a few episodes back which seems like help to me. But I don't know maybe they're now using a different meaning for help from some weird universe where words have different meanings than what we know. Yet if this is true, perhaps you should explain that to the audience.

So yeah on first (and so far only) watch I didn't hate the episode, but knowing these flaws are there I'm not wanting to watch it again, because I'm afraid I'll end up actually hating it.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

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