Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

For all general Sci-fi and Fantasy discussions, be it books, TV or movies

Moderator: PhoenixHope

Message
Author
User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#1 Post by PhoenixHope » September 10th, 2014, 7:43 pm

Haven 5x01 "See No Evil" (Season Premiere)

Episode Description
(From Zap2it)

Audrey, Nathan and Duke's victory over William feels hollow as they deal with the aftermath.


I mean, there's so much wrong with this that I almost can't even. *sigh*

Of course, original Audrey isn't going to be happy about what happened to William in the finale, not to mention that she wouldn't even consider it a victory.

But it's alright I am at one with the universe or some shit.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Haven 5x01 "See No Evil"

#2 Post by PhoenixHope » September 12th, 2014, 6:08 pm

Haven 5x01 See No Evil

Okay, so apparently I wasn't lying with the above, because while I hated last seasons finale it would seem that at some point between then and now I accepted it.
(Possibly because as much as it bothered me at the time it does make a certain amount of sense that the original was responsible for starting the troubles and that the whole returning to Haven over and over and again some more to help was a punishment.)

Now that's not to say all is sweetness and light...

I mean I was okay with Nathan being stupid and insisting he could get Audrey back, even though it makes no real sense that he could do that, because in a big way Audrey was not real. Sure she says she can remember all the people she was forced to be since then, but by the shows own logic none of those people was ever real - it was a personality imprinted over the top of an actual person. Ergo, none of them ever existed and therefore there is literally no Audrey for Nathan to reach.

The part where I became not okay with this is when "Audrey" couldn't kill him - not that I want Nathan dead mind you, but that seemed to be the moment the show was trying to confirm Nathan was right even when it makes no damn sense for him to be right in this instance.

Aside from that the episode itself wasn't that bad, and I do like the hints that something came through when they sent William through, but that for some reason only coma!brother knows and since he's comatose he can't tell anyone. That and I do think I could learn to love Duke's new bit wherein all the troubles his family has "killed" over the years are now in him and can come out at any moment. That has potential.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Haven 5x02 "Speak No Evil"

#3 Post by PhoenixHope » September 17th, 2014, 8:51 pm

Haven 5x02 "Speak No Evil"

Episode Description
(From Zap2it)

Duke struggles to accept Jennifer's death; Nathan searches for Audrey in Mara's cruel personality.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
RJDiogenes
Posts: 15093
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Haven 5x01 "See No Evil"

#4 Post by RJDiogenes » September 17th, 2014, 11:13 pm

Whoa, they put a major spoiler in the capsule description. Here I am wondering if Jennifer will ever return, and that pretty much answers my question. It's a shame, too, because I liked her and I thought she had a good thing with Duke.

PhoenixHope wrote:I mean I was okay with Nathan being stupid and insisting he could get Audrey back, even though it makes no real sense that he could do that, because in a big way Audrey was not real. Sure she says she can remember all the people she was forced to be since then, but by the shows own logic none of those people was ever real - it was a personality imprinted over the top of an actual person. Ergo, none of them ever existed and therefore there is literally no Audrey for Nathan to reach.

This is true. We actually met the real Audrey back in season one or two.

The part where I became not okay with this is when "Audrey" couldn't kill him - not that I want Nathan dead mind you, but that seemed to be the moment the show was trying to confirm Nathan was right even when it makes no damn sense for him to be right in this instance.

Well, it makes sense for Nathan to want to save her, because he loves her, so he's not going to accept any answer besides Audrey being okay. And it makes sense for Audrey to return, real or not, because she's the main character and this isn't the type of show to wipe out a main character in that way. They did it to Fred on Angel, but she was a supporting character (and it was a really bad decision). And this is what I call an "Irwin Allen" show, so it doesn't have to make sense. But it can be made to make sense if we consider Mara a multiple personality-- even if the Audrey persona was artificially imposed on her, that doesn't mean it isn't a strong personality and that it couldn't overwhelm the original. Anyway, I'm sure that's what's going to happen. :D

Aside from that the episode itself wasn't that bad, and I do like the hints that something came through when they sent William through, but that for some reason only coma!brother knows and since he's comatose he can't tell anyone. That and I do think I could learn to love Duke's new bit wherein all the troubles his family has "killed" over the years are now in him and can come out at any moment. That has potential.

Yeah, I did like the idea that someone new is around, locking the thinnies. I didn't think Jennifer would be capable of that, even if she were alive. Or maybe it's someone old. I wonder if Audrey's handler has returned. Or maybe some other law enforcement type from the other side.
Come visit RJDiogenes.com :) And check out My Gallery :) And My YouTube Page :)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#5 Post by PhoenixHope » September 18th, 2014, 7:19 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:Whoa, they put a major spoiler in the capsule description. Here I am wondering if Jennifer will ever return, and that pretty much answers my question. It's a shame, too, because I liked her and I thought she had a good thing with Duke.


See for me they're selling it way to hard. I mean, unlike you I couldn't care less about Jenny, so I didn't care when all signs was pointing to deadsville, but I'm starting to think they're building up this whole "she's dead" thing to "surprisingly" reveal that she's not in fact actually dead. And it's all so much crap.
(I admit Duke is part of the reason I'm hoping she stays gone, though. I just never could like her and Duke as a pairing. If she did come back but didn't take up again with Duke I don't think I'd have as much a problem with her return.)

RJDiogenes wrote:Well, it makes sense for Nathan to want to save her, because he loves her, so he's not going to accept any answer besides Audrey being okay.


Yeah, hence the reason I said I was okay with him being an idiot on that score.

RJDiogenes wrote:And it makes sense for Audrey to return, real or not, because she's the main character and this isn't the type of show to wipe out a main character in that way.


I know, and I'm starting to think that's why I hated the reveal on this one last season so badly, because if they just imprint Audrey over the original again that makes the whole damn story of last season (and probably most of this one) very very pointless. So why bother to even do it in the first place when there was many ways a reveal of the real person could've been done so that the original would be more like Audrey. Instead they do this thing where the original is not even remotely like Audrey only to then taint the whole thing when/if they bring Audrey back, because even if they do bring Audrey back (the personality not the actual FBI Agent) Audrey is still just an imprint and not an actual person.

As you can tell the whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, so much so that I'd almost rather them simply soften the original instead of contriving some way of slapping an imprint over a real person again. I mean, yes, it can be said that the original needs to be punished, but again it just makes the whole damn thing tainted.

Because as much as people might've hated it (I didn't, though I admit I did feel a bit of sympathy for Fred, and yet the story just worked especially as the rancid cheery on top of the steaming pile that was her life) - I've always respected Team Whedon for doing something like that and then not bowing to fan reaction and undoing it, especially after the show itself had made it clear that Fred was literally gone from not just her body but the very fabric itself. But I fear you are correct and Haven unlike Angel will contrive some way of undoing it instead of dealing with it in a way that won't feel like a cop-out or leave me feeling like the whole thing is tainted.

RJDiogenes wrote:Yeah, I did like the idea that someone new is around, locking the thinnies. I didn't think Jennifer would be capable of that, even if she were alive. Or maybe it's someone old. I wonder if Audrey's handler has returned. Or maybe some other law enforcement type from the other side.


Right now I'm kinda hoping another law enforcement type. After all it seems weird that the group that "settled" things before would be completely unaware of what was going on now. Okay fine they could be unaware of William and the hyper Troubles, but they'd have to know the Barn and keeper of the Barn was dead - the Barns destruction alone should reveal that much.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
RJDiogenes
Posts: 15093
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#6 Post by RJDiogenes » September 18th, 2014, 10:46 pm

PhoenixHope wrote:See for me they're selling it way to hard. I mean, unlike you I couldn't care less about Jenny, so I didn't care when all signs was pointing to deadsville, but I'm starting to think they're building up this whole "she's dead" thing to "surprisingly" reveal that she's not in fact actually dead. And it's all so much crap.

That certainly could be.

I know, and I'm starting to think that's why I hated the reveal on this one last season so badly, because if they just imprint Audrey over the original again that makes the whole damn story of last season (and probably most of this one) very very pointless.

Well, they'll probably say that she's still in there, submerged, along with all the other personalities (remember when Audrey realized she could play the piano?). And they'll say that, even though she started out as an imprint, at that point she started living her own life and developed into a unique person, different from the original Audrey. She may even end up as an amalgam of all the different personalities.

Because as much as people might've hated it (I didn't, though I admit I did feel a bit of sympathy for Fred, and yet the story just worked especially as the rancid cheery on top of the steaming pile that was her life) - I've always respected Team Whedon for doing something like that and then not bowing to fan reaction and undoing it, especially after the show itself had made it clear that Fred was literally gone from not just her body but the very fabric itself.

And that's exactly why I hated it-- it just seemed meanspirited. It was just the one-upmanship of the Darker and Grittier fad, rather than a legitimate plot development.

Right now I'm kinda hoping another law enforcement type. After all it seems weird that the group that "settled" things before would be completely unaware of what was going on now. Okay fine they could be unaware of William and the hyper Troubles, but they'd have to know the Barn and keeper of the Barn was dead - the Barns destruction alone should reveal that much.

Unless their law enforcement is as inept as ours. :D
Come visit RJDiogenes.com :) And check out My Gallery :) And My YouTube Page :)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#7 Post by PhoenixHope » September 18th, 2014, 11:16 pm

Yeah, and keep in mind I'm talking about the show and not meaning to harsh your buzz or nothing because if it works for you - great, but something like that simply wouldn't work for me.

RJDiogenes wrote:Well, they'll probably say that she's still in there, submerged, along with all the other personalities (remember when Audrey realized she could play the piano?). And they'll say that, even though she started out as an imprint, at that point she started living her own life and developed into a unique person, different from the original Audrey. She may even end up as an amalgam of all the different personalities.


And last seasons observation of the return of the original makes that soooo much bullshit. Even Audrey Imprint herself said that memories of the original felt different than all the other memories she'd "recovered" from other imprints, which means the show itself has said that there's a difference between the real and the imprint and obviously I'd rather see them keep the original original rather than simply trying to contrive something to put Audrey back over things.

In other words, I'm saying I'd rather see them move forward rather than revert back, but all signs right now seem to make me think the show is headed back instead of foward.

RJDiogenes wrote:And that's exactly why I hated it-- it just seemed meanspirited. It was just the one-upmanship of the Darker and Grittier fad, rather than a legitimate plot development.


I agree it was rather meanspirited, but it was also one of the only ways they could go to prove that Fred was gone. Even if they'd had her simply move on to where ever dead people went in Whedon's verse that wouldn't be enough to be gone forever and ever.

I suppose part of the reason I didn't hate it was probably because it was the first time I'd felt something for Fred one way or the other. Well, that and I actually loved Illeria (damn now I can no longer spell the thing properly) she was just for me such an interesting character and certainly had so much more potential than Fred.

And I suppose that's the same with Audrey vs Original - I feel like Audrey is played out, but the original has so much potential. Yes, I realize the potential would be a lot more had they not made her and William so evil, but it's still more potential than an Audrey story at this point.

RJDiogenes wrote:Unless their law enforcement is as inept as ours. :D


Well, that's why I suggested that the Barn vanishing (or being destroyed) should've been something easy for them to realize/notice. Whereas Original and William behaving badly might not be something they'd pay much attention too.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Re: Haven 5x02 "Speak No Evil"

#8 Post by PhoenixHope » September 19th, 2014, 5:29 pm

Hmm, as per usual when I went offline last night I thought of some things. First, I don't think the whole dying thing was the first time I felt something for Fred - I think the first time was with that whole storyling with Fred wanting to kill the jagoff who sent her to Demonland originally, and Wesley wanting to keep his Madonna pure so he did the killing for her (I personally loathed him at that point, which was a bit sad because while I hadn't liked him on Buffy on Angel I'd kinda grown to at least not hate him until that point). What I felt then was a triffling of actual respect for Fred because she didn't just sit back and take that. It was also apparently overall a triffling of feeling because I don't remember paying any more attention to Fred after that whole thing than I did before, and also the fact that I'd clearly forgotten all about it.
(
So I'm forced to admit that might be another reason I didn't hate the demise of Fred since just before it happened the show had Fred and Wesley making moves to get back together - thankfully that was stopped before it happened, because had it happened I could have never liked/respected Fred again.)

But you'll have to forgive me it's been years since I've rewatched ANY of Angel, and even then that was only season five - I haven't watched early Angel since just after the DVDs came out, and even then I believe I focused more on the delightful season two then any of the rest.


Haven 5x02 Speak No Evil

As for this weeks episode of Haven there I was liking it - downright almost enjoying it even. Then the ending happened. *sigh*

But first I guess I have to say I was wrong about one thing - the overselling of Jinny's death. Apparently the people behind Haven went to the Rowling school of character death, which basically means push it push it push it so there's no doubt said character is dead, Jim. With that in mind I'm almost surprised they didn't blow up her corpse - perhaps that happens next week.

Anyway, as I said, I was rather enjoying this weeks episode of Haven then the ending with Audrey peaking out of Mara and I actually did call out bullshit to my screen. But then I thought of something - of course I want to state here that I do not believe the following is where the show will head, but it's going to be my personal headcanon (at least for now). What if Mara knew that even love sick Nathan could only be pushed so far before he broke (which is basically what was happening to him in this episode) and so she saw a moment to throw him off and pretended to be Audrey. It's not like she hasn't done that before, and in this case it had Nathan jumping his gun and moving her to protect her from the Guard.
(I would actually love this because blame Buffy and especially Farscape if you must but there's very few things I like better than an intelligent bad guy in my entertainment.)

Yes, I'm sure I'll be Jossed (I believe is the term) next week, but for now that's my theory. Partly I suppose I will after the end of Haven have to come up with a standing headcanon, because I no longer expect to find the ending of the show working for me. So, I expect over the next couple seasons I will be coming up with lots of headcanons.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
RJDiogenes
Posts: 15093
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#9 Post by RJDiogenes » September 19th, 2014, 11:37 pm

PhoenixHope wrote:Yeah, and keep in mind I'm talking about the show and not meaning to harsh your buzz or nothing because if it works for you - great, but something like that simply wouldn't work for me.

Nah, that's fine.

And last seasons observation of the return of the original makes that soooo much bullshit. Even Audrey Imprint herself said that memories of the original felt different than all the other memories she'd "recovered" from other imprints, which means the show itself has said that there's a difference between the real and the imprint and obviously I'd rather see them keep the original original rather than simply trying to contrive something to put Audrey back over things.

I don't remember that, but it would make sense that imprinted memories would feel different-- but the memories of things she really experienced should feel real to her.

In other words, I'm saying I'd rather see them move forward rather than revert back, but all signs right now seem to make me think the show is headed back instead of foward.

Yeah, I'd be very surprised if Audrey is not restored in some way.

I suppose part of the reason I didn't hate it was probably because it was the first time I'd felt something for Fred one way or the other.

She was my favorite character. :lol:

And I suppose that's the same with Audrey vs Original - I feel like Audrey is played out, but the original has so much potential. Yes, I realize the potential would be a lot more had they not made her and William so evil, but it's still more potential than an Audrey story at this point.

Audrey still has potential if they delve into her coming to terms with her origins; especially if she ends up an amalgam of all her different selves.

But first I guess I have to say I was wrong about one thing - the overselling of Jinny's death. Apparently the people behind Haven went to the Rowling school of character death, which basically means push it push it push it so there's no doubt said character is dead, Jim. With that in mind I'm almost surprised they didn't blow up her corpse - perhaps that happens next week.

Yikes. I guess she's all done. I haven't seen the episode yet.

Anyway, as I said, I was rather enjoying this weeks episode of Haven then the ending with Audrey peaking out of Mara and I actually did call out bullshit to my screen. But then I thought of something - of course I want to state here that I do not believe the following is where the show will head, but it's going to be my personal headcanon (at least for now). What if Mara knew that even love sick Nathan could only be pushed so far before he broke (which is basically what was happening to him in this episode) and so she saw a moment to throw him off and pretended to be Audrey. It's not like she hasn't done that before, and in this case it had Nathan jumping his gun and moving her to protect her from the Guard.

Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. I think Audrey will be back, but I don't think she will make it back so easily.
Come visit RJDiogenes.com :) And check out My Gallery :) And My YouTube Page :)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Re: Haven 5x02 "Speak No Evil"

#10 Post by PhoenixHope » September 20th, 2014, 7:01 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:I don't remember that, but it would make sense that imprinted memories would feel different-- but the memories of things she really experienced should feel real to her.


Yeah, I can't point you to the episode, or even the person Audrey was talking to at the time (possibly (probably) Nathan), but I remember her having a conversation late last season about how the memories she was currently remembering (of Mara) was different from the memories of Lucy and Sarah. That they just felt more real or something - though I'm certain she didn't say it just that way, but that was the gist of it.

Audrey still has potential if they delve into her coming to terms with her origins; especially if she ends up an amalgam of all her different selves.


Not really, or at least not for me, because that just seems like so much rehash of Audrey coming to terms with not having always been Audrey. I.E. coming to understand that she'd been to Haven before as a different person and more than once.

Hmm. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case. I think Audrey will be back, but I don't think she will make it back so easily.


I doubt it, because if you watch the episode it wasn't really played that way. It was played as though that was really Audrey peaking out.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
RJDiogenes
Posts: 15093
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#11 Post by RJDiogenes » September 20th, 2014, 9:24 pm

I'm anxious to see it. I'll probably watch it after Chat tonight.
Come visit RJDiogenes.com :) And check out My Gallery :) And My YouTube Page :)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Haven 5x03 "Spotlight"

#12 Post by PhoenixHope » September 24th, 2014, 7:51 pm

Haven 5x03 "Spotlight"

Episode Description
(From Zap2it)

Dwight and Duke deal with a deadly trouble that threatens to burn the town to the ground.


So, I guess we're skipping right past "hear no evil" then.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
RJDiogenes
Posts: 15093
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#13 Post by RJDiogenes » September 24th, 2014, 10:52 pm

Yeah, that's kind of like waiting for the other shoe to drop.

I did watch last week's episode. They're definitely playing it as Audrey still being alive, rather than a trick-- although it was suspiciously just in time for Nathan to change his mind about giving her up.

Looks like Dwight is in charge of the Guard now, and Vincent seems kind of okay with that. Or is he? I hope Dwight doesn't have a sudden "accident" or something. He's really cool.

And Jennifer is most sincerely dead. :( That's a shame. I wonder if they decided to write her out for story reasons or if there was something behind the scenes. She seemed to be introduced as a character of major importance.
Come visit RJDiogenes.com :) And check out My Gallery :) And My YouTube Page :)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Re: Haven 5x03 "Spotlight"

#14 Post by PhoenixHope » September 26th, 2014, 7:59 pm

So I watched it and admittedly didn't care for it, but on the flip-side I didn't entirely hate it either.

Sorry, but that's really all I can come up with to say about the episode, so... Though I guess it is mildly interesting that the original might've been a bit of an influence. What I mean by that is that while Nathan is totally Audrey's type a good point was made about how Duke (who did get some Audrey-time) is WAY more Mara's type than Audrey's.

But even that's barely worthy of note to me for some reason.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
RJDiogenes
Posts: 15093
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#15 Post by RJDiogenes » September 26th, 2014, 10:38 pm

Probably not entirely true of older and wiser Duke (and grayer-- I didn't notice until that flashback sequence), but Mara had no luck manipulating Nathan, so why not try Duke? Saving his life is probably the best way she can see to getting his assistance in escaping.
Come visit RJDiogenes.com :) And check out My Gallery :) And My YouTube Page :)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Haven 5x04 "Much Ado About Mara"

#16 Post by PhoenixHope » October 1st, 2014, 7:13 pm

Haven 5x04 "Much Ado About Mara"

Episode Description
(From Zap2it)

zap2it had no description, and I'm too lazy to go try and find another
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
RJDiogenes
Posts: 15093
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#17 Post by RJDiogenes » October 1st, 2014, 10:33 pm

I looked it up on my iPhone SyFy app (yes, there is such a thing):

Dwight, who's now leading the Guard, and Nathan are conflicted over what to do about Mara. Dwight wants her to end the Troubles at any cost, but Nathan is convinced that Audrey is still in there somewhere.


Which could just as easily be a description of last week's episode. :lol:
Come visit RJDiogenes.com :) And check out My Gallery :) And My YouTube Page :)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#18 Post by PhoenixHope » October 1st, 2014, 11:05 pm

So much so that if zap2it doesn't have one for next week I might just c/p that one into the description.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Re: Haven 5x04 "Much Ado About Mara"

#19 Post by PhoenixHope » October 3rd, 2014, 6:55 pm

First things first, I guess after this episode I can't just c/p that description for next week since all three are now convinced that Audrey is (or at least was) still in there.

And now:

Haven 5x04 Much Ado About Mara

I'm trying, I really am trying to ignore all the things that doesn't make sense about Audrey somehow still existing despite the fact that she was only a personality superimposed over Mara in the first place, but then this episode goes and gets in my face with why it doesn't make sense.

*sigh*

Audrey isn't anymore real than Sarah or Lucy or any other personality Mara wore while being the Haven savior. Therefore Mara should have a hell of a lot more people in her head rattling around, but no apparently there's only Audrey and she ain't no Zuul.

Still ignoring all that it wasn't a bad episode and I loved Duke's little problem. I have new respect for the actor, because he managed not only to keep a straight face but somehow managed not to even crack a smile while acting and saying those lines.

On the other hand, and possibly why I'm pretty neutral on this episode (aside from the Duke bits and even the Vince and Dave bits was pretty okay) is that in addition to pointing out bigger flaws with its own story it actually finally had something that made sense - Mara can't end the Troubles. That actually works and that was why I've said all along that killing her wouldn't help - the only hope Haven actually has for Trouble relief is to try and find the other realm police and have them redo their thing on Mara.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
RJDiogenes
Posts: 15093
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#20 Post by RJDiogenes » October 3rd, 2014, 10:56 pm

I haven't seen it yet. On Demand has been really slow to update lately.

I don't really have a problem with Audrey being real, even if she started as an imposed personality-- that just makes her kind of like Thomas Riker on TNG-- but I was pretty much expecting all the other personalities to be in there, too, and maybe even that the final Audrey would be a combination of all of them. So that's a little disappointing.

I do like that Mara can't end the Troubles and that they must seek help from the dimensional police. I want to know more about that other realm, and hopefully visit there.
Come visit RJDiogenes.com :) And check out My Gallery :) And My YouTube Page :)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#21 Post by PhoenixHope » October 3rd, 2014, 11:48 pm

RJDiogenes wrote:I haven't seen it yet. On Demand has been really slow to update lately.


Still better than mine - I finally found On Demand on my DISH and yet it never lists episodes from shows I actually watch. It's always a bunch of stuff I don't watch and ain't interested in.

RJDiogenes wrote:I don't really have a problem with Audrey being real, even if she started as an imposed personality-- that just makes her kind of like Thomas Riker on TNG--


I was just gonna sigh and let it go (all agree to disagree), but then you just had to go and mention the Thomas Riker incident, which I don't feel is the same at all.

Thomas was (maybe) "born" in a transporter accident which somehow duplicated the man born William Thomas Riker completely - mind and body (and then there were two). So, Thomas Riker was completely real and it could even be debated there that Thomas Riker was the first and William Riker was the duplicate (the episode says that until that moment they was exactly the same person so either could be the duplicate). You can't argue that with Audrey vs Mara at all, because Mara was the real person and Audrey was an impression taken from a real person and slapped over Mara. And Audrey isn't the only personality implanted over Mara where there was only until the point of the accident one William Thomas Riker.

RJDiogenes wrote:I do like that Mara can't end the Troubles and that they must seek help from the dimensional police. I want to know more about that other realm, and hopefully visit there.


Yeah, Audrey in what may have been her last moments - Mara discovered, thanks to the dynamitic trio, that Audrey was still "knocking around in her head" and the scene played as though Mara was taking Audrey down/out - told them Mara had been lying to them that she couldn't remove the Troubles she could only create them and/or modify them.

However, to be fair, none of the characters have suggested finding the other realm police - that was my idea alone, one I keep waiting for a character to suggest, but none have so far.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
RJDiogenes
Posts: 15093
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#22 Post by RJDiogenes » October 4th, 2014, 9:40 pm

PhoenixHope wrote:I was just gonna sigh and let it go (all agree to disagree), but then you just had to go and mention the Thomas Riker incident, which I don't feel is the same at all.

I just can't leave well enough alone. :lol:

Thomas was (maybe) "born" in a transporter accident which somehow duplicated the man born William Thomas Riker completely - mind and body (and then there were two). So, Thomas Riker was completely real and it could even be debated there that Thomas Riker was the first and William Riker was the duplicate (the episode says that until that moment they was exactly the same person so either could be the duplicate). You can't argue that with Audrey vs Mara at all, because Mara was the real person and Audrey was an impression taken from a real person and slapped over Mara. And Audrey isn't the only personality implanted over Mara where there was only until the point of the accident one William Thomas Riker.

Well, that's true, it's not exactly the same thing. But I'm saying that Audrey II, once she was installed, was a conscious entity that began living her own life, so I can accept her as a real character.

Yeah, Audrey in what may have been her last moments - Mara discovered, thanks to the dynamitic trio, that Audrey was still "knocking around in her head" and the scene played as though Mara was taking Audrey down/out - told them Mara had been lying to them that she couldn't remove the Troubles she could only create them and/or modify them.

That will make Dwight and the others want to kill her even more.

However, to be fair, none of the characters have suggested finding the other realm police - that was my idea alone, one I keep waiting for a character to suggest, but none have so far.

It's a good idea, though. And since they have been mentioning Agent Howard again, you may be right.
Come visit RJDiogenes.com :) And check out My Gallery :) And My YouTube Page :)

User avatar
PhoenixHope
Administrators
Posts: 4413
Joined: October 17th, 2004, 7:09 pm
Location: The land of everlasting pain!
Contact:

Haven 5x05 "The Old Switcheroo"

#23 Post by PhoenixHope » October 8th, 2014, 8:55 pm

Once again zap2it has let me down when it comes to Haven, but this week I decided to go the extra mile and just grab the description off of my DISHGuide

Haven 5x05 "The Old Switcheroo"

Episode Description
(From From my DISHGuide)

Part 1 of 2: When Vince and Dave travel to North Carolina, their probing of Dave's past uncovers a body-swapping problem back in Haven.
Tim (needs lighter): ...and none of you smoke.
Art (looks at armada): Nobody smokes? This is Kentucky, not Sausalito. What's wrong with you people!
(per capita in KY toss a cat u'll hit a smoker! So that's where Justified puts the fiction in the show.)

User avatar
RJDiogenes
Posts: 15093
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#24 Post by RJDiogenes » October 8th, 2014, 11:16 pm

Sweet! More Vince and Dave is always good, but that bit about "Croatoan" in the last episode literally made me shout out loud. The Roanoke Colony is one of the classic mysteries of American history and I can't wait to see how they tie it in to the plot. :D
Come visit RJDiogenes.com :) And check out My Gallery :) And My YouTube Page :)

User avatar
RJDiogenes
Posts: 15093
Joined: December 9th, 2007, 12:21 pm
Location: Boston
Contact:

Re: Haven Season Five Episode Discussion Thread

#25 Post by RJDiogenes » October 9th, 2014, 11:22 pm

You probably already know this, but they've switched Haven to Friday at 7pm. A disturbingly bad time slot, but they've got Z Nation at 10pm and I suppose wrestling is too profitable to mess with. I'm guessing the ratings weren't too good on Thursdays.
Come visit RJDiogenes.com :) And check out My Gallery :) And My YouTube Page :)

Post Reply