Random Thoughts-Senate Version

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Theophilus · #1 Post by **Theophilus** » February 4th, 2006, 4:53 am

Some random thoughts that I just needed to get out. And as they are political, I figured I'd better put them in this forum.

Okay, so I'm reading the news tonight, and see where the Afghan president criticisized a Danish cartoonist for mocking the Prophet. These cartoons were circulated thorughout several European countries. So the Afghan president is calling for the cartoonist to be sacked, saying that he respects the freedom of press, but things that are hurtful to Muslims shouldn't be published.

WTF?!?! So what, he respects the freedom of the press as long as it says only the good stuff about Islam? That's not what freedom of the press means to me. I mean you have to be willing to accept the stuff you don't like, along with the stuff you do like in order to have a truly free press. At least, that's the way I see it.

And another topic that has been bugging me. I got into an arguement at work the other day with several ladies in the breakroom. She was saying that all them immigrants ought to learn English. It doesn't matter that in the US, we don't have an official state language. One lady said that we shouldn't need a law stating that English is the official language. I thought about saying "Yeah, we shouldn't, people should just be more open minded instead of a bunch of close minded bigots," but I didn't.

So then another lady started complaining about how some teachers are being forced to teach in Spanish rather than in English. So again I reiterated how we don't have an official language, and how it comes down to an economic choice. These teachers choose to seek employment in the education field. They choose to seek employment in an area that has a large Spanish speaking population. Their choice-and they have the choice to quit if they want to. It all comes down to their choice. I have yet to hear about any teacher being held at gunpoint and being forced to teach.

And finally, the icing on the cake. Again with a third lady, I started discussing freedom. We all have the freedom to choose. When you start saying people should, you start taking away that choice. We do not have the right to force others to conform to our view of what is right and wrong. She disagreed with me. So I asked her, who should decide what people should do. Should all be free to follow whatever course they want, or should it be freedom for just those who speak English and do what everyone else thinks we should do. She said that everyone should do what the group wants. (She didn't say who should make up this all-knowing and all-powerful group.) This was the last straw for me at that point and I lost it. I raised my right hand, clicked my heels together, and said 'Zieg Heil!' to her.

Captain Cisco · #2 Post by **Captain Cisco** » February 4th, 2006, 6:01 pm

Theophilus wrote:Okay, so I'm reading the news tonight, and see where the Afghan president criticisized a Danish cartoonist for mocking the Prophet. These cartoons were circulated thorughout several European countries. So the Afghan president is calling for the cartoonist to be sacked, saying that he respects the freedom of press, but things that are hurtful to Muslims shouldn't be published.

WTF?!?! So what, he respects the freedom of the press as long as it says only the good stuff about Islam? That's not what freedom of the press means to me. I mean you have to be willing to accept the stuff you don't like, along with the stuff you do like in order to have a truly free press. At least, that's the way I see it.

I think this incident should be a major wakeup call to anyone who DOESN'T think Islam is a violent and insular religion. They do NOT want to be part of the world around them. They expect the world to conform to their beliefs, and if the world doesn't, there are threats of violence.

And another topic that has been bugging me. I got into an arguement at work the other day with several ladies in the breakroom. She was saying that all them immigrants ought to learn English. It doesn't matter that in the US, we don't have an official state language. One lady said that we shouldn't need a law stating that English is the official language. I thought about saying "Yeah, we shouldn't, people should just be more open minded instead of a bunch of close minded bigots," but I didn't.

On the other hand, if you move to a country whose primary language is English, it behooves you to learn that language. Again, you can't move to another country, and expect that country to bend over backwards to accomodate you.

So I asked her, who should decide what people should do. Should all be free to follow whatever course they want, or should it be freedom for just those who speak English and do what everyone else thinks we should do. She said that everyone should do what the group wants. (She didn't say who should make up this all-knowing and all-powerful group.) This was the last straw for me at that point and I lost it. I raised my right hand, clicked my heels together, and said 'Zieg Heil!' to her.

A bit of an extreme response. And while her response was very simplistic, she's right. This country is founded on the rule of the majority, and ran that way for two hundred years. The trouble is, lately, the various minority groups (political, racial, cultural, etc.) are starting to find ways to supercede the Majority, and you can see the resulting chaos, confusion, and moral ambiguity.

I'm not saying the majority is always right, and that's why there are safeguards built into our system to protect those who dissent. But the majority is not always wrong either. And that needs to be respected.

Captain Cisco · #3 Post by **Captain Cisco** » February 4th, 2006, 6:24 pm

And just in case my point about Islam wasn't clear:

Source

Syrians Storm Embassies Over Caricatures
By ALBERT AJI, Associated Press Writer
45 minutes ago

DAMASCUS, Syria - Rage against caricatures of Islam's revered prophet poured out across the Muslim world Saturday, with aggrieved believers calling for executions, storming European buildings and setting European flags afire.

Thousands of outraged Syrian demonstrators stormed the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus, setting fire to both buildings.

Police fired tear gas and water cannons to disperse demonstrators at the Norwegian Embassy after the Danish building was burned.

But the protesters broke through police barriers and set fire to the second building, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" which is Arabic for "God is great!"

Theophilus · #4 Post by **Theophilus** » February 4th, 2006, 11:43 pm

And another topic that has been bugging me. I got into an arguement at work the other day with several ladies in the breakroom. She was saying that all them immigrants ought to learn English. It doesn't matter that in the US, we don't have an official state language. One lady said that we shouldn't need a law stating that English is the official language. I thought about saying "Yeah, we shouldn't, people should just be more open minded instead of a bunch of close minded bigots," but I didn't.

On the other hand, if you move to a country whose primary language is English, it behooves you to learn that language. Again, you can't move to another country, and expect that country to bend over backwards to accomodate you.

True. But you have the choice to be different. If you want to be in a country where most people don't speak your language, and you cannot effectively communicate, get a job, etc. it is because of a choice you have made.

So I asked her, who should decide what people should do. Should all be free to follow whatever course they want, or should it be freedom for just those who speak English and do what everyone else thinks we should do. She said that everyone should do what the group wants. (She didn't say who should make up this all-knowing and all-powerful group.) This was the last straw for me at that point and I lost it. I raised my right hand, clicked my heels together, and said 'Zieg Heil!' to her.

A bit of an extreme response. And while her response was very simplistic, she's right. This country is founded on the rule of the majority, and ran that way for two hundred years. The trouble is, lately, the various minority groups (political, racial, cultural, etc.) are starting to find ways to supercede the Majority, and you can see the resulting chaos, confusion, and moral ambiguity.

I'm not saying the majority is always right, and that's why there are safeguards built into our system to protect those who dissent. But the majority is not always wrong either. And that needs to be respected.

Rule of the majority with PROTECTION for the minority. If I want to be different, I have the freedom of speech, of religion, etc. that essentially protects my freedom to be different. When you have the group forcing minorities to conform into some homogenous thing, as this lady was wanting, you have lost that freedom.
That is what set me off. She was suggesting that those who do not speak English have no rights to the freedoms guaranteed to us in the Declaration, the Constitution, and the other legal documents of our country. That those who don't speak English were somehow lesser, and didn't deserve those freedoms. Which made me think of how the Nazis described the Jews as subhuman. Which is why I reacted the way I did.

Captain Cisco · #5 Post by **Captain Cisco** » February 5th, 2006, 1:23 am

Random thought:

Cindy Sheehan has totally gone off the deep end. She's gone from grieving mother, to anti-war protestor, to far-left wing nutcase who cavorts with Communist dictators like Venezuela's Chavez. Her son, who died fighting in Iraq, is probably turning over in his grave...

desert rose · #6 Post by **desert rose** » February 5th, 2006, 1:26 am

Well you can't really blame her for being anti-war if her son was killed in Iraq.

Captain Cisco · #7 Post by **Captain Cisco** » February 5th, 2006, 1:35 am

It's beyond that. She has exploited her son's death into an all-out anti-Americanism campaign. She's heaping filth upon everything her son gave his life to defend by standing beside men like Chavez, who so deeply hates America.

desert rose · #8 Post by **desert rose** » February 5th, 2006, 1:39 am

Now that is wrong, I'll agree.

She probably just likes the spotlight.

#9 Post by **Aurian** » February 5th, 2006, 2:33 am

on the first topic.. the swedish ambassies are also burning at the moment..

Theophilus · #10 Post by **Theophilus** » February 5th, 2006, 2:42 am

Aurian, I hope your countrymen, and all embassy personnel are safe!

And on another note folks, yes, I still want to join the Foreign Service and go work in embassies.

Captain Cisco · #11 Post by **Captain Cisco** » February 5th, 2006, 6:51 am

On the other hand, while I in no way support the Muslims' ridiculous and extreme reactions to this, this should also be a wakeup call to all the iconoclasts who knowingly insult the beliefs of others because they think they can. Free speech is guaranteed to allow people with dissenting opinions and ideas to be heard without legal censure. It's not meant to be an open invitation to knowingly and gratuitously insult the beliefs of others. Even in disagreement over beliefs, there should always be an element of respect for the believer. Let's hope some people learn something from all this.

Damian Vryce · #12 Post by **Damian Vryce** » February 7th, 2006, 8:25 pm

Captain Cisco wrote:On the other hand, while I in no way support the Muslims' ridiculous and extreme reactions to this, this should also be a wakeup call to all the iconoclasts who knowingly insult the beliefs of others because they think they can. Free speech is guaranteed to allow people with dissenting opinions and ideas to be heard without legal censure. It's not meant to be an open invitation to knowingly and gratuitously insult the beliefs of others. Even in disagreement over beliefs, there should always be an element of respect for the believer. Let's hope some people learn something from all this.

i.e., You are free to say what you want, but don't be surprised if some one gets pissed off.

Captain Cisco · #13 Post by **Captain Cisco** » February 7th, 2006, 8:50 pm

^ Exactly.

TNeia · #14 Post by **TNeia** » February 7th, 2006, 9:46 pm

Captain Cisco wrote:Random thought:

Cindy Sheehan has totally gone off the deep end. She's gone from grieving mother, to anti-war protestor, to far-left wing nutcase who cavorts with Communist dictators like Venezuela's Chavez. Her son, who died fighting in Iraq, is probably turning over in his grave...

Oh she was here recently, cozying up to her Scottish counterpart, Rose Gentle. For God's sake - if you join the bloody army, what do you think you're going to do - spend all your time flower arranging? It's not like they were conscripts! I wouldn't want a child of mine to join up, but if they did, and they were killed, I wouldn't disrespect their memory by saying things that made it sound like they were so stupid they didn't know what their chosen career entailed. People who join up here *know* they're going to Northern Ireland (which isn't quite so dangerous now!) or Afghanistan or Iraq.

And Auri - why are Swedish embassies burning?? Can't the Moslems tell the difference between your flag and Denmark's??

Captain Cisco · #15 Post by **Captain Cisco** » February 7th, 2006, 9:54 pm

TNeia wrote:Oh she was here recently, cozying up to her Scottish counterpart, Rose Gentle. For God's sake - if you join the bloody army, what do you think you're going to do - spend all your time flower arranging? It's not like they were conscripts! I wouldn't want a child of mine to join up, but if they did, and they were killed, I wouldn't disrespect their memory by saying things that made it sound like they were so stupid they didn't know what their chosen career entailed. People who join up here *know* they're going to Northern Ireland (which isn't quite so dangerous now!) or Afghanistan or Iraq.

Most rational people know that. The trouble is, this woman left rational behind months ago...

And Auri - why are Swedish embassies burning?? Can't the Moslems tell the difference between your flag and Denmark's??

Because at this point, the Muslim's ire is roused against pretty much all of Europe, because some brilliant people in other countries decided to take the cartoons that started all of this and reprint them in "support of free speech." :roll:

As I said, I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I DO support free speech, and I think the Muslim extremists are being VERY unreasonable in their reactions. On the other hand, a lot of people who spend their time sowing the wind are now reaping the whirlwind. Their irresponsible behavior in the name of "free speech" has at last come around to bite them.

The forces of "anything goes" have finally met the forces of TRUE intolerance, and it's going to be a very bloody conflict...

TNeia · #16 Post by **TNeia** » February 7th, 2006, 10:29 pm

I think we should give them the same religious freedoms as Christians and other faiths get in their countries. So that would be none. See, I am usually one of the 'anything goes' people, but that only goes when I get the same treatment back. Otherwise, I am a total fascist bitch who would quite cheerfully send the SAS to turn their holy places to dust. There is no living with these people. So, if it's a matter of them or me, then it's goodbye to them.

Which reminds me - all this stuff about 'no images of the prophet' is crap. There was a scholar on the TV here last Sunday explaning that there are Moslem sects (I think he said Sufi and maybe Shiite) who make images of their prophet and that you can find pictures of him all over Iran.

Hmmm. It seems I have embraced the Romulan within!

Gods, I need chocolate!!

Captain Cisco · #17 Post by **Captain Cisco** » February 7th, 2006, 10:37 pm

TNeia wrote:Which reminds me - all this stuff about 'no images of the prophet' is crap. There was a scholar on the TV here last Sunday explaning that there are Moslem sects (I think he said Sufi and maybe Shiite) who make images of their prophet and that you can find pictures of him all over Iran.

It's the Shiites, I believe, and it is images of the Prophet Ali they have everywhere, not Mohammed.

Pádraig the Blue · #18 Post by **Pádraig the Blue** » February 7th, 2006, 10:44 pm

Embrace the Rhihanna :evil:

TNeia · #19 Post by **TNeia** » February 7th, 2006, 11:24 pm

Captain Cisco wrote:
TNeia wrote:Which reminds me - all this stuff about 'no images of the prophet' is crap. There was a scholar on the TV here last Sunday explaning that there are Moslem sects (I think he said Sufi and maybe Shiite) who make images of their prophet and that you can find pictures of him all over Iran.

It's the Shiites, I believe, and it is images of the Prophet Ali they have everywhere, not Mohammed.

You sure? This guy was some kind of cleric and he def. said Mohammed..

TNeia · #20 Post by **TNeia** » February 7th, 2006, 11:25 pm

Pádraig the Blue wrote:Embrace the Rhihanna

Don't make me hurt you, Paddy! :evil:

Captain Cisco · #21 Post by **Captain Cisco** » February 7th, 2006, 11:48 pm

TNeia wrote:You sure? This guy was some kind of cleric and he def. said Mohammed..

We could be talking about different things. I remember reading an article about one group that allows images of Ali, but not Mohammed.

Pádraig the Blue · #22 Post by **Pádraig the Blue** » February 8th, 2006, 1:05 am

TNeia wrote:
Pádraig the Blue wrote:Embrace the Rhihanna

Don't make me hurt you, Paddy!

I think you want to.... and besides, do you really want to make me happy?

Cato · #23 Post by **Cato** » February 8th, 2006, 3:04 pm

Time was when if you were monumentally stupid enough to provoke the Danes or the Swedes by attacking their people and their soil (as the Syrians did when they stormed the embassies) that you would live just long enough to regret it. I mean, these were the DANES, the Norsemen, the terror of the world from Ireland to Moscow. It's too bad that's changed. I mean, I'd expect France to just roll over and surrender, but Denmark???!! Too bad it's not the old days. After all, it'd be pretty cool to see the longships rowing down the Med to go sack Damascus.

Not that such a response would probably change anything in Syria, but it would at least show that SOMEBODY in Northern Europe actually understand the real situation. This ought to be the final nail in the coffin of the whole "religion of peace" thing. This is a war. A war between cultures, and THEY mean to win. Meanwhile the west sits by with their religion of multiculturalism saying "we're no better than they are, we have to have tolernace, pooh-pooh, pooh-pooh."

Remember these words: Left-liberalism is the philosophy of consilation to the West as it commits suicide.

They are fighting. If we, the West, don't fight back with just as much vigor WE WILL LOSE. And you'll see women from Copenhagen to Paris to Phoenix in burkas.

All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing. This applies all the more to this situation. After all, we DO have something to fight for. Our culture IS superior to theirs, in every way. History has shown it to be so. If we don't stop feeling bad about that, apologizing for that, denying it, and instead start believing in it and fighitng for it WE WILL LOSE IT.

Meech · #24 Post by **Meech** » February 8th, 2006, 7:00 pm

Captain Cisco wrote:
TNeia wrote:Which reminds me - all this stuff about 'no images of the prophet' is crap. There was a scholar on the TV here last Sunday explaning that there are Moslem sects (I think he said Sufi and maybe Shiite) who make images of their prophet and that you can find pictures of him all over Iran.

It's the Shiites, I believe, and it is images of the Prophet Ali they have everywhere, not Mohammed.

Ali's actually not a prophet--Muhammed was the seal of the prophets (the last one.) Ali is just Mushammed's rightful successor (so say Shiiite Muslims.)

Also, I'd never heard of the "no pictures of the Prophet" rule before now. Is it really in the Qur'an or hadith?

Theophilus · #25 Post by **Theophilus** » February 8th, 2006, 8:23 pm

Pretty sure it is in the Koran. I could look it up in my copy of the Koran, but... I wanna be lazy on my day off.

I know Saddam angered just about ever Muslim because he palstered his picture up on mosques. It was a great blasphemey to those people to see that man's picture on their places of worship.

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